Weirdness Around Ft Bragg 6/18/2018 7-11PM EST

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#1
(for those not familiar with the arcane gobblety-goop that follows the gist is: Ft Bragg/central NC area- today 6/18/2018 7-11PM EST- ADSBexchange -Watch it)

Checking the NOTAMS today I saw:

!RDU 06/173 5W4 AIRSPACE SEE ZDC 06/233 PJE 1806182300-1806190300

!FAY 06/014 FAY AIRSPACE SEE ZDC 06/233 PJE 1806182300-1806190300

!DCA 06/233 ZDC AIRSPACE PJE WI AN AREA DEFINED AS 15NM RADIUS OF SDZ113019 (10.8NM SW POB) SFC-F260 1806182300-1806190300

interesting but they do a bunch of serious HAHO stuff out there around KMEB / 5W4 on a regular basis, though over 20,000ft is more the exception. But I continued reading and i see:

!DCA 06/236 ZDC AIRSPACE SPECIAL AERIAL REFUELING TRACK/ANCHOR WI AN AREA DEFINED AS RDU319032 TO RDU225036 TO RDU243053 TO RDU301050 TO POINT OF ORIGIN ACT 13000FT-FL190 DLY 0430-0930 1806190430-1806220930

especially this one which the hours coincide with:

!DCA 06/235 ZDC AIRSPACE SPECIAL AERIAL REFUELING TRACK/ANCHOR WI AN AREA DEFINED AS FAY046057 TO FAY104039 TO FAY119016 TO FAY023045 TO POINT OF ORIGIN ACT 11000FT-FL190 DLY 2300-1000 1806182300-1806221000

and while i can't say for sure where SBV is (cause i have yet to figure out what aero charts/maps use the FAY RDU SDZ etc grids, and would be thrilled if someone enlightened me) I bet TYI is in the area-ish too

!DCA 06/234 ZDC AIRSPACE SPECIAL AERIAL REFUELING TRACK/ANCHOR WI AN AREA DEFINED AS SBV092022 TO TYI004015 TO TYI270012 TO SBV148018 TO POINT OF ORIGIN ACT 13000FT-FL190 DLY 0300-1000 1806190300-1806221000

and since empty airspace is wasted airspace, to top it off:

NUMEROUS ACFT x2

!RDU 06/176 SDZ AIRSPACE NUMEROUS ACFT WI AN AREA DEFINED AS 5NM RADIUS OF SDZ160012 (HFF) FL200-FL220 DLY 0001-1200 1806190001-1806221200

!RDU 06/175 SDZ AIRSPACE NUMEROUS ACFT WI AN AREA DEFINED AS 5NM RADIUS OF SDZ160012 (HFF) BLOCK ALT 8000-10000FT DLY 0001-1200 1806190001-1806221200

& the generally routine UAS stuff

!RDU 06/164 SDZ AIRSPACE UAS WI AN AREA DEFINED AS SDZ145016 TO SDZ135016 TO SDZ130014 TO POINT OF ORIGIN SFC-2000FT AGL DLY 1100-0400 1806181100-1806230400

!RDU 06/163 SDZ AIRSPACE UAS WI AN AREA DEFINED AS 5NM RADIUS OF SDZ159011.5 SFC-2000FT AGL DLY 1100-0400 1806181100-1806230400

SOOOOO......I dunno if I am going to be able to sit around an watch https://global.adsbexchange.com/VirtualRadar/desktop.html# all evening (though i am certainly thinking about it) but as we are a global community I thought it might make for interesting investigating by those who are near and far and throw it out there.

I watch the NOTAMs religiously and have been for 3 years now and this is definitely a new one for me. I have never even seen a refueling route of any variety around here NOTAM'd out before.
 
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krokus

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#3
It sounds like there are various uses for those NOTAMs. There might be some test flights, and refueling those flights.

I doubt they are HAHO ops.


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Mark

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#4
PJE is Para Jump Exercise in ZDC Notam..

FAY Fayettville
RDU is Raleigh Durham
DCA Wash DC.

you can plug those 3 letter vortacs and others like SDZ,TYI into this box.
OPENNAV Aviation Database

Sounds like large scale Fort Bragg parajump and refueling exercise..
 
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#5
sometimes..........

Thank you kma371 and mark, i am still working on memorizing all this stuff, and frankly have been thinking only in terms of FAY,RDU,SDZ etc in front of co-ords as being a reference to a quad/sectional of some type (as in with MGRS the 17SPU grid covering much of the bragg area), as opposed to them also being a mix of airports, vortacs, waypoints etc. kinda get tunnel vision alot.

so when i see for example "SBV092022 " i have been thinking from the grid map perspective. can either of you explain or direct me where to learn what the "092022" represents? is it a radial and a distance or something? i am not a pilot and am just trying to get a basic understand of this sort of thing but i have had a dickens of a time on this particular aspect.


It sounds like there are various uses for those NOTAMs. There might be some test flights, and refueling those flights.

I doubt they are HAHO ops.


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and thank you krokus, once again i suffer from tunnel vision from time to time. you are certainly right, it might not be a HAHO ParaJumpingExcercise taking place between the SurFaCe and FlightLevel 26000 Feet and requiring as much as 15 nautical miles horizontal distance, presumably to cover the 26,000 feet distance between the DZ and the craft the ParaJumpingExercise originates from. Tho the ones I have observed have been so far.

which type of ParaJumpingExcercise do you think it refers to?

and back to reality, an oddball i have noted in the area already. BLOCKED on flightradar24, not unusual andrarely interesting, well this one is to the North over a small town in a rural area, and the real kicker is.... its a DC-3

at 1245 EST its in the air still

https://flight-data.adsbexchange.com/activity?icao=A2B041

N272ZZ A2B041
Big Flats LLC N272ZZ
United States Civil
Douglas DC-3 BT-67
 

krokus

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#6
i have noted in the area already. BLOCKED on flightradar24, not unusual andrarely interesting, well this one is to the North over a small town in a rural area, and the real kicker is.... its a DC-3
Is it blocked, or is it military aircraft not using civilian transponder systems? They might be using encrypted IFF modes.

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#7
i know i am going to regret this....i already do...

For anyone who is interested (his voice echoed across the cavernous void) ops that i caught were mainly on:

HFF Twr 121.0 and 254.4
Range Cntl 249.9
DZ freq 139.7

and a new one that I didn't catch til nearly midnight, was AAR/refueling related

AAR 143.800 AM

stuff went on til bout 0200, havent had a chance to seriously listen to the recordings yet (at my distance they weren't terrible clear most times) but I believe there was a JILLxx flight (C-130s from who knows where) and lots of talk of V22s.

also a good bit of chatter involving "are they under us? or are we under them?" how no one got killed.....

and now for old business......

Is it blocked, or is it military aircraft not using civilian transponder systems? They might be using encrypted IFF modes.

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its whatever this is:

https://flight-data.adsbexchange.com...ty?icao=A2B041

when it was in the air, if you clicked on the plane icon, or hovered over it it showed the following info:

N272ZZ A2B041
Big Flats LLC N272ZZ
United States Civil
Douglas DC-3 BT-67

doing this:

https://flight-data.adsbexchange.com/map?icao=A2B041&date=2018-06-18

while at the same time, at the same location, the same altitude and flying the same circles, there was a BLOCKED on flightradar24

Also, could you help me learn how to tell when a military aircraft is "using encrypted IFF mode" by watching it online?

Also, did you ever decide "which type of ParaJumpingExcercise do you think it refers to?"
 

KJ4LZM

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#8
I live near Bragg. I will keep an ear out on those freqs and let you know what I hear.
I was listening to "Hard Rock and Cowboy" yesterday around 4-5pm. It sounded like targeting practice around Seymour Johnson.
 
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#11
I live near Bragg. I will keep an ear out on those freqs and let you know what I hear.
I was listening to "Hard Rock and Cowboy" yesterday around 4-5pm. It sounded like targeting practice around Seymour Johnson.
cool deal. yeah it appears its a large scale excercise ongoing thru the 22nd or so. i had neglected to do any wide area searching til just before i turned in so 143.8, which i have never heard in use before was pure luck.

thats right interesting bout the other DC3, at least its post-WWII vintage.:) there are sooo many contractors that operate out your way, its hard to keep up.

ealier this morn heard suspect chatter on 123.45 and checked adsbexchange and N992MA is orbiting SOP/Moore Co making very pretty, perfect circle racetrack. see it a fair bit this past month but cant drag much up about the owner Jet Rider LLC

https://www.flightradar24.com/B350/1cd3bc77
https://flight-data.adsbexchange.com/activity?icao=ADDB25

also noted this a little while ago:

!GPS 06/208 (KZDC A0161/18) ZDC NAV GPS (FBNC GPS 18-59) (INCLUDING WAAS,
GBAS, AND ADS-B) MAY NOT BE AVBL WI A 22NM RADIUS CENTERED AT
350713N0791339W (RDU215050) FL400-UNL, 23NM RADIUS AT FL250, 23NM RADIUS AT
10000FT, 23NM RADIUS AT 4000FT AGL, 23NM RADIUS AT 50FT AGL. DLY 0200-1000
1806190200-1806201000

related? i dunno


whoa chck flightradar24 round fay right now. besides the standard uas (presume) 4digit N-number craft in the air there is a Sierra Nevada Dash-8 too

https://www.flightradar24.com/GKA609/1cd3ff80
 
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krokus

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#15
Also, could you help me learn how to tell when a military aircraft is "using encrypted IFF mode" by watching it online?
When using the military IFF modes, the ADS-B might be turned off. If so, those aircraft will not show up on the websites. You would have to be watching, to see the aircraft disappear/reappear.

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krokus

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#16
There is a training complex a little north of Charlotte, SC, at which I would see some Bragg based units on the schedule. If this exercise is that large, they might utilize it.

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#19
quick update

Many V22s, at least some doing the refueling.
at least 2 cessna skymasters heard, a BOEINGxx callsign and alot of stuff that sounds like contractors.
its all pretty worthwhile listening to just for the chaos aspect.

123.45 is actually being used as a range control freq amongst others, of which i forgot to mention initially also includes 139.35 of course

375.65 is air/ground and can confirm its use

heard mentioned but yet to confirm

389.650
381.375 as the something Primary. mentioned on 143.2 the AAR freq
both presumably am

41.8 fm pops up periodically

various restricted airspace entry/exit co-rd on 285.5 and 348.65, prob others

32.35 FM is in use at least a2a though it wouild make more sense a2g. not heard much over past 2 nights. SHRED36 is one callsign used which may be a MC-130 as i saw one on adsbex yesterday afternoon in the area with the same callsign

There is a training complex a little north of Charlotte, SC, at which I would see some Bragg based units on the schedule. If this exercise is that large, they might utilize it.

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i really can't thank you enough for chiming in on all of this.
 
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