• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

What comes after encryption?

Status
Not open for further replies.

wphm449

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
30
Location
Temecula, CA
With encryption becoming more and more popular, what will us scanner hobbiests do after most (or all, for that matter) public saftey communications go silent?
 

zz0468

Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
5,957
Location
175 DME, HEC 358° Radial
...what will us scanner hobbiests do after most (or all, for that matter) public saftey communications go silent?
Listen to aircraft, listen to railroads, listen to boats, listen to commercial traffic, listen to public safety that won't or can't go encrypted, listen to hams, listen to utilities, listen to press services i.e. tv and radio station news gathering. Etcetera. Etcetera. Etcetera.
 

b7spectra

EMS Dispatcher
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
3,140
Location
Cobb County, GA
What will come about is "underground" encryption busters and you will be able to listen in. Hey, no one thought they could put a man on the moon or Obama could be president...... :D
 

burawski

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2004
Messages
12
Location
Miramar
Probably will be something similar with regards to the way Prohibition (of alcohol) was during the 1920's and 30's. I imagine with the technology out there that some systems will be penetrated. It's happened in Australia recently from what I've been reading. It is all illegal of course. I don't condone it but understand why it will probably come to pass. The whole subject can become pretty acrimonious as many people have differing and very strong feelings on this subject.
 

Thayne

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
2,129
Listen to Simon & Garfunkle sing "Sound of Silence?"

Then listen to the sound of Streaming fade out

Then we can go out and fish in the stream in peace.

The End :p
 
Last edited:

trace1

Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
774
Location
EM73co
With encryption becoming more and more popular, what will us scanner hobbiests do after most (or all, for that matter) public saftey communications go silent?
"This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
I'll never look into your eyes...again"

Sorry... just couldn't help myself!!! ;)

There will always be something to 'listen" to, not everyone will go encrypted. So I guess this really isn't "The End"...

But on the other hand, IF and that is a mighty BIG "IF", we just might all have to "Break on Through (to the Other Side)"!!!
 

W2NJS

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2006
Messages
1,934
Location
Washington DC
Good luck on "breaking" encryption codes. Agencies usually change them quite often, some even daily, via a system known as OTAR (Over The Air Rekeying).
 

ecps92

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
10,362
Location
Taxachusetts
Hmmm
Trunking was going to be the end of Scanning, I'm still listening
P25 was going to be the end of Scanning, I'm still listening.
:D

With encryption becoming more and more popular, what will us scanner hobbiests do after most (or all, for that matter) public saftey communications go silent?
 

soberbyker

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
395
Location
Delaware County, PA
Lots of lawsuites due to injury or death because the government failed to get the information out in a timely manner.
Why is that? Does an encrypted message take longer to transmit?

To be honest I don't understand why they all don't use it, although I'm glad they don't. I can remember many many moons ago my local PD would "Go to red" and then would be unreadable for that conversation.
 

Thayne

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
2,129
"This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
I'll never look into your eyes...again"

Sorry... just couldn't help myself!!! ;)

There will always be something to 'listen" to, not everyone will go encrypted. So I guess this really isn't "The End"...

But on the other hand, IF and that is a mighty BIG "IF", we just might all have to "Break on Through (to the Other Side)"!!!
Good one, gotta say I totally agree--I am just a natural pessimist, that way I am never disappointed :lol:
 

maplebear

Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
140
Location
North America
Why is that? Does an encrypted message take longer to transmit?

To be honest I don't understand why they all don't use it, although I'm glad they don't. I can remember many many moons ago my local PD would "Go to red" and then would be unreadable for that conversation.
1) You are a police officer and your coded radio fails to work. You get killed or injured.
2) You are a police officer .The town next your yours has a coded radio system and different then your dept. radio system . Due to this you do not hear a BOLO that the bad guys are headed your way with machine guns shooting everything in sight. You get killed or injured.
3)You live in Anytown with a coded radio system :
a) There is a hazmat spill with high winds blowing your way and Anytown fails to send out a alert or can not get a alert out.
b)There are bad guys headed to your part of Anytown and you can not hear the BOLO. You or your family gets injured or killed.
c) There is major storm headed your way but Anytown tv & radio stations or you with a scanner can not hear about it because of the coded radio system.
 

soberbyker

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
395
Location
Delaware County, PA
1) You are a police officer and your coded radio fails to work. You get killed or injured.
2) You are a police officer .The town next your yours has a coded radio system and different then your dept. radio system . Due to this you do not hear a BOLO that the bad guys are headed your way with machine guns shooting everything in sight. You get killed or injured.
3)You live in Anytown with a coded radio system :
a) There is a hazmat spill with high winds blowing your way and Anytown fails to send out a alert or can not get a alert out.
b)There are bad guys headed to your part of Anytown and you can not hear the BOLO. You or your family gets injured or killed.
c) There is major storm headed your way but Anytown tv & radio stations or you with a scanner can not hear about it because of the coded radio system.
A bit harsh but OK, I truly don't understand why encryption is or isn't used full time, hence my question.

Other than incompatibility with other systems (and there are towns in this situation without encryption as well) any radio can fail, is it more likely with an encrypted radio?

.
 

trace1

Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
774
Location
EM73co
1) You are a police officer and your coded radio fails to work. You get killed or injured.
And if you’re a Police Officer and your conventional VHF/UHF (non-digital, non-coded) radio fails to work and you get killed, who are you going to blame or what suggestion(s) would you make to improve or ensure that this would never happen?

2) You are a police officer .The town next your yours has a coded radio system and different then your dept. radio system . Due to this you do not hear a BOLO that the bad guys are headed your way with machine guns shooting everything in sight. You get killed or injured.
Two agencies with non-compatible radio systems have a few other ways to keep each other informed about BOLO’s and other important information…

One is called a telephone! And there are some more ways…

3)You live in Anytown with a coded radio system :
a) There is a hazmat spill with high winds blowing your way and Anytown fails to send out a alert or can not get a alert out.
If Anytown fails to or can not get an alert out about a hazmat spill with high winds blowing your way has little or nothing to do with a communications system being coded or non-coded…

3)You live in Anytown with a coded radio system :
b)There are bad guys headed to your part of Anytown and you can not hear the BOLO. You or your family gets injured or killed.
Does everyone in Anytown carry a scanner with them so they’d be able to hear that BOLO if it were given out on a non-coded system?

3)You live in Anytown with a coded radio system :
c) There is major storm headed your way but Anytown tv & radio stations or you with a scanner can not hear about it because of the coded radio system.
I certainly would hope that the local TV & Radio stations in Anytown has a better way of monitoring the weather rather than only relying on monitoring the local Law Enforcement, Public Safety, EMA frequencies on a scanner…
 

maplebear

Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
140
Location
North America
A bit harsh but OK, I truly don't understand why encryption is or isn't used full time, hence my question.

Other than incompatibility with other systems (and there are towns in this situation without encryption as well) any radio can fail, is it more likely with an encrypted radio?

.
Yes with a encrypted radio there is more of a chance of something going wrong because you have another layer of technology added to the radio system.
 

zz0468

Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
5,957
Location
175 DME, HEC 358° Radial
Yes with a encrypted radio there is more of a chance of something going wrong because you have another layer of technology added to the radio system.
Your arguments against encryption are weak, uninformed, and not based on reality. The fact is, hobbyists are against it because they can't listen. Agencies that use it, use it because they perceive that they will be safer against the threats they feel they face. Their perception of safety trumps your desire to listen.
 

maplebear

Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
140
Location
North America
And if you’re a Police Officer and your conventional VHF/UHF (non-digital, non-coded) radio fails to work and you get killed, who are you going to blame or what suggestion(s) would you make to improve or ensure that this would never happen?



Two agencies with non-compatible radio systems have a few other ways to keep each other informed about BOLO’s and other important information…

One is called a telephone! And there are some more ways…



If Anytown fails to or can not get an alert out about a hazmat spill with high winds blowing your way has little or nothing to do with a communications system being coded or non-coded…



Does everyone in Anytown carry a scanner with them so they’d be able to hear that BOLO if it were given out on a non-coded system?



I certainly would hope that the local TV & Radio stations in Anytown has a better way of monitoring the weather rather than only relying on monitoring the local Law Enforcement, Public Safety, EMA frequencies on a scanner…


Trace1,
Would rather be a police officer with a radio system like open sky or VHF/UHF conventional radio system?
Radio encryption hampers policing, sources say | WJLA.com
I have heard many times when the cops or dispatchers will talk to the people in scanner land because they need help.
There times when things have happened and No DC alert have gone out.
Would you rather live in ANYTOWN with a coded radio system or non coded system where you can know what is going on ?
Would rather live a in a place where your only source of information is given to you by the government?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top