• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

What's up with Longmont PD

Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
32
Location
Longmont Colo
#1
Has Longmont PD changed their TG for primary dispatch? I have not heard a peep out of them for over 12 hours, even on my new sds 100. Any info would be appreciated.

Mark
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Messages
2,007
Location
Greeley, CO
#2
Lots of activity on TG 9516 TAC 3 ENC and 9517 Clearance ENC.

It appears they are not using their in the clear dispatch TG 9515. 156.210 analog simulcast is also silent.
 
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
1,752
Location
Colorado
#3
Dispatch announced that were "moving all traffic for the rest of the evening to the Data channel" at 02:15 on Friday, September 21st. Kind of looks like the move was a little bit more long term than just the rest of the evening.

It does not look very promising seeing that normal operations has not resumed in more than 40 hours.
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
32
Location
Longmont Colo
#5
I have not heard anything new except rumors of It being a "temp. situation" and unknown when it will be back to normal. That is why I am trying to get in contact with NOGTG to program my $2000 worth of bricks to include State Patrol and utilities.

Mark
 

abqscan

DataBase Administrator
Moderator
Joined
Dec 8, 2002
Messages
2,584
Location
AOA
#7
I find it ironic that the pilot project was created after the media caught Longmont PD performing warrantless searches.
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
32
Location
Longmont Colo
#8
This story has so many holes in it, it's not even funny. Like the members have said on this website, they are trying to cover things up. Nothing to support their generalizations. The best statement was that they said Loveland PD was encrypted. I just got the scoop from the Comm. Director. No they are in the clear. I just lost all respect for the agency and their transparency to the citizens of Longmont. My family has lived here for over 100 years and now I'm feeling like a move out of here. By the way---Curt please give a call.
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Messages
2,007
Location
Greeley, CO
#9
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Messages
25
Location
Longmont
#10
Been monitoring the Longmont PD for close to 40 years. I just like to know what's going on around my town. Now the police have gone dark, they can spoon feed whatever they want to the people and the media. No transparency in Longmont. I intend to make a lot of noise to City Council. And the police wonder why there is so much public distrust toward them these days?

BTW, I wonder if Boulder County deputies can communicate with Longmont at all now?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
266
Location
On the other side of the tracks
#11
BTW, I wonder if Boulder County deputies can communicate with Longmont at all now?
Probably yes and no. Dispatch probably has some console to console ability, but as far as BSCO deputy to LPD dispatch direct? Not without some patch from their VHF to LPD's digital, which would have to be activated by somone's dispatch anyway. Or the obvious exception would be if BSCO is carrying multiband radios.

I agree with all of the above statements though, it would not surprise me if back room discussions started after the warrantless debacle, and then the OIS conveniently (for them) made it easier to justify...
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
1,752
Location
Colorado
#13
BTW, I wonder if Boulder County deputies can communicate with Longmont at all now?
Probably yes and no. Dispatch probably has some console to console ability, but as far as BSCO deputy to LPD dispatch direct? Not without some patch from their VHF to LPD's digital, which would have to be activated by somone's dispatch anyway. Or the obvious exception would be if BSCO is carrying multiband radios.
Multiband radios is the answer. The APX 7000 & 7500 has been Boulder County's standard issue radio for several years now. They have all of Longmont's encryption keys and can talk on any of Longmont's talkgroups.

Boulder County Dispatch is also directly networked into DTRS.
 
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Messages
25
Location
Longmont
#14
Good, last I had heard, and this was quite some time ago, BCSO didn't have the Longmont encryption keys. Good to know they can still communicate.
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
266
Location
On the other side of the tracks
#15
"Pilot Project" is just the way they are spinning it to make it more palatable to the public, long enough for a few news cycles to pass, and the general public to forget what's happening. I bet the necessary key filling is being or has already been done on the main dispatch TG.

"Satur emphasized that the change is a pilot project that may be adjusted in the future, but at this time there is no scheduled end date." - BS that decision has already been made, sorry guys, you can kiss Longmont goodbye and add it to the growing list gone dark...
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
32
Location
Longmont Colo
#16
I will be back in town mid-week and definitely plan on contacting the City Council member for my district; hopefully I can do a face-to-face with him. I sent an email to the gal that originally broke the story, but yet to hear anything back yet.

As a quick note, there was a correction in the local newspaper regarding Loveland being the big E and are in the clear for dispatch. Someone must be reading our posts. This is starting to smell like "something's rotten in Denmark's and has more holes in it like a high quality Suiss cheese.

I may just to be ornery Talley up all the quality State of the art scanners I have bought in the last 2 years and send them an invoice for them. Haha.

Later.
 

nathancarlson

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
278
Location
Longmont, CO
#17
It is pretty frustrating. At first they kept the main dispatch channel in the clear and encrypted the others, which is understandable. When an incident got sensitive they moved it to another channel. They have
no proof a scanner or app was used during a crime. As far as 5 people having a scanner in the car or home when they responded to a call or pulled someone over? The 5 people probably KNEW they were being pulled over or the cops were coming to their house so how does that affect officer safety?

Even if Boulder County has their channels I'm sure State Patrol is in the dark, even while they are passing though or en route to a call thats just outside of Longmonts jurisdiction but Longmont isn't willing to cover. They only get 3rd hand info from their dispatch and have no idea whats going on. Mutual Aid has always been an issue since we border both Weld and Larimer Counties. Many times a major vehicle accident near the border results in several "commands" being set up by the different agencies who are all on scene, making the Incident Command System useless for those incidents.

I can remember several examples in Northern Colorado of agencies not being able to COMMUNICATE and work together because of encryption.

As a volunteer ham operator, I couldn't even hear the car to car channels they would use at the same events we were supporting. As a Longmont resident, I signed up for Everbridge Alerts (like reverse 911 for people without landlines) and have NEVER received an alert. It was nice having a scanner so I knew when to lock my door because something was up in my neighborhood, or encourage my kids to go to a different park because someone was just shot or stabbed at the one they planned to go to. As a school district employee, it was nice to have an idea of what was going on when several cops were across the street but they hadn't notified the school.

I think it does more damage than good, and we all have legitimate legal reasons to monitor public safety. Maybe they can buy us all ice cream to make us feel better: https://denver.cbslocal.com/2018/10/12/cops-nurses-ice-cream-arrest-lobby/
 

AI7PM

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 6, 2015
Messages
379
Location
The Intermountain West
#18
It is pretty frustrating.At first they kept the main dispatch channel in the clear and encrypted the others, which is understandable. When an incident got sensitive they moved it to another channel. They have
no proof a scanner or app was used during a crime. As far as 5 people having a scanner in the car or home when they responded to a call or pulled someone over? The 5 people probably KNEW they were being pulled over or the cops were coming to their house so how does that affect officer safety?

Even if Boulder County has their channels I'm sure State Patrol is in the dark, even while they are passing though or en route to a call thats just outside of Longmonts jurisdiction but Longmont isn't willing to cover. They only get 3rd hand info from their dispatch and have no idea whats going on. Mutual Aid has always been an issue since we border both Weld and Larimer Counties. Many times a major vehicle accident near the border results in several "commands" being set up by the different agencies who are all on scene, making the Incident Command System useless for those incidents.

I can remember several examples in Northern Colorado of agencies not being able to COMMUNICATE and work together because of encryption.

As a volunteer ham operator, I couldn't even hear the car to car channels they would use at the same events we were supporting. As a Longmont resident, I signed up for Everbridge Alerts (like reverse 911 for people without landlines) and have NEVER received an alert. It was nice having a scanner so I knew when to lock my door because something was up in my neighborhood, or encourage my kids to go to a different park because someone was just shot or stabbed at the one they planned to go to. As a school district employee, it was nice to have an idea of what was going on when several cops were across the street but they hadn't notified the school.

I think it does more damage than good, and we all have legitimate legal reasons to monitor public safety. Maybe they can buy us all ice cream to make us feel better: https://denver.cbslocal.com/2018/10/12/cops-nurses-ice-cream-arrest-lobby/
If I may, I'd like to offer an alternative point of view and ask questions on a couple of you points.

"It's frustrating".
I get that for the listening enthusiast. And, the PSAP isn't there to serve radio enthusiast.

"I'm sure State Patrol is in the dark.../....They only get 3rd hand info from their dispatch...."
Their dispatch is the channel they would primarily (should/need to be) be on anyway, unless asked to change to LPD or an interop. Would they really be in the dark, or actually know what it is they NEED to know via appropriate channels? The two (or more) PSAPs can talk to each other at the push of a button and coordinate response or channel changes.

"I can remember several examples in Northern Colorado of agencies not being able to COMMUNICATE and work together because of encryption."
Encryption would have had zero to do with this, as any interop freqs would be in the clear, with multiple freqs (think NIFOG, Blue NW, Red NW) available for their use.

"As a volunteer ham operator, I couldn't even hear the car to car channels they would use at the same events we were supporting."
What is your need as a ham to hear their comms at an event you are supporting? I ask, because I hear this from many hams, even at events where they aren't hearing the other ham freqs that may be in use at the event. It seems that being on a frequency being used to cover one's assignment isn't enough. If I'm assigned a given channel/freq for my support roll, shouldn't that be where I'm listening to support my work?

"....and we all have legitimate legal reasons to monitor public safety."
I could probably defend various positions on that, but I'd like to hear your thinking and legal references on it.
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Messages
2,007
Location
Greeley, CO
#19
If I may, I'd like to offer an alternative point of view and ask questions on a couple of you points.

"It's frustrating".
I get that for the listening enthusiast. And, the PSAP isn't there to serve radio enthusiast.
The OP is very well aware of this.

"I'm sure State Patrol is in the dark.../....They only get 3rd hand info from their dispatch...."
Their dispatch is the channel they would primarily (should/need to be) be on anyway, unless asked to change to LPD or an interop. Would they really be in the dark, or actually know what it is they NEED to know via appropriate channels? The two (or more) PSAPs can talk to each other at the push of a button and coordinate response or channel changes.
CSP troopers do monitor the county and Longmont dispatch channels and have, on many occasions, showed up on their dispatch channels for queries and offers of assistance. They do have scanning radios in the patrol cars on VHF.

"I can remember several examples in Northern Colorado of agencies not being able to COMMUNICATE and work together because of encryption."
Encryption would have had zero to do with this, as any interop freqs would be in the clear, with multiple freqs (think NIFOG, Blue NW, Red NW) available for their use.
The ability of officers being able to monitor neighboring agencies is where Nathan is going with this. Fort Collins is the biggest example of isolationism. CSU and Estes Park went along with this as well.

Weld County is on FRCC and officers in the field do NOT have access to the BLUE and RED interop TG's since they are used in the Metro area. WELD dispatch has to initiate an ISSI patch to interact with DTRS every time. The latest example of this is in the CBS 4 news article Nathan linked to in his post. I heard this as it happened. No one on the Weld side of this incident knew what the hell was going on. It was treated as an active shooter and hostage situation. It was well over 30 minutes before the realization that it was Longmont arresting a suspect at a U.C. health community E.R.

Larimer is DTRS they don't have the BLUE/RED metro groups however MAC is the fallback.

"....and we all have legitimate legal reasons to monitor public safety."
I could probably defend various positions on that, but I'd like to hear your thinking and legal references on it.
If the comm is in the clear it's legal provided the person monitoring is not using it for criminal purposes. Doesn't get any clearer than that.

.
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
32
Location
Longmont Colo
#20
Today's edition of the Longmont Times Call has a great Editorial named "Police radio silence goes too far"
Glad to see the media's twist on this B.$ that is going on here in Longmon.
 
Top