Where is San Francisco?

[majoco]

I know the obvious answer, but....

I often hear SF on 8867kHz in the evening here, and just now he is pretty LOUD! I heard Hawaiian 465 time 0635z at position Boyes at FL 360 with next point at Barkr - both these points are just southwest of Hawaii - so where is the controller and where is the transmitter? I guess (?) the transmitter is in Hawaii and the controller in SF, but why not call it Hawaii Radio instead of SF?

Cheers - Martin ZL2MC

 

[kma371]

I know the obvious answer, but....

I often hear SF on 8867kHz in the evening here, and just now he is pretty LOUD! I heard Hawaiian 465 time 0635z at position Boyes at FL 360 with next point at Barkr - both these points are just southwest of Hawaii - so where is the controller and where is the transmitter? I guess (?) the transmitter is in Hawaii and the controller in SF, but why not call it Hawaii Radio instead of SF?

Cheers - Martin ZL2MC

From what I know the towers are east of a city called Fairfield in California. You can see them on google maps, you can see the array quite clearly. The controllers are three countys at AirInc HQ located in Livermore, CA (40 miles east of San Fran.)

 

[ridgescan]

From what I know the towers are east of a city called Fairfield in California. You can see them on google maps, you can see the array quite clearly. The controllers are three countys at AirInc HQ located in Livermore, CA (40 miles east of San Fran.)

Would 8843khz and 11282khz be from that same location? Also-can someone tell me why I get my own SF aero no stronger than I get NY-does it have something to do with the "takeoff angle" shooting most of the sig over me?

 

[majoco]

From what I know the towers are east of a city called Fairfield in California.

Yes, I understand that the controllers and transmitters (towers?) would be there for the Oceanic Areas CEP-1,2 and 3, but 8867 is used for the South Pacific area from Hawaii down to Fiji, Tahiti, Brisbane and Auckland - it doesn't touch mainland US. There's no need for the controller to be on Hawaii, but surely the transmitters should be?

Cheers - Martin

 

[brandon]

From the SP-HF-Guide PDF document dated March 2009 it shows this for San Francisco Radio.

Transmitters
Dixon (38. 22.46.7 N 121.45. 50.9 W) (D)
2 TCI 532-N Log-Periodic (3-30 MHz)
2 TCI 530 log-periodic OMNI (3-30 MHz)
4 AERCOM 1330 (5KW)
1 Cubic CTX-1000 (1KW) standby

Moloka’i, Hawaii (21.10.33.5N 157.10.38.9 W) (M)
3 TCI 527-B Log-Periodic (6.2-30 MHz)
-NP2 Direction: 346 deg., 6.2-30 MHz
-NP3 Direction: 346 deg., 6.2-30 MHz
2 TCI 527-3-28 Log-periodic (6.2-30 MHz)
-CWP2 275 deg., 6.2-30 MHz
-CWP1 183.5 deg., 6.2-30 MHz
3 TCI 532-4-28 Log-Periodic. (3-30 MHz)
-CEP Direction: N - 51 deg., 3-30 MHz
-CEP Direction: S - 57 deg., 3-30 MHz
-SP Direction: 188 deg., 3-30 MHz
2 TCI 530-4-28 Log-Periodic OMNI (3-30 MHz)
7 CUBIC CTX-5000 (5KW)
1 Cubic CTX-5000 (5KW) standby

Oahu, Hawaii (21.22.30.6 N 158.5.5.1 W)
Auxiliary transceiver
1 TCI 530 Log-Periodic (3-30 MHz)
1 Cubic CTX-1000 (1KW)

Barrow, Alaska (71.15.30.9 N 156. 34.38.9 W) (B)
1 TCI 530 Omni (3-30 MHz)
1 CTX-1000 (1KW)

Mt. Barragada, Guam 13.19.17 N 144.49.30 E
3 MARVIN 101 Dipole Antenna
1 Cubic CTX-1000 (1KW)


Receivers
Half Moon Bay (37.39. 00 N 122. 41. 00 W)
2 TCI 532-B log-periodic (3-30 MHz)
-North Direction W 278 degrees
-West Direction SW 222 degrees
1 TCI 530 log-periodic OMNI (3-30 MHz)
1 TCI 527B log-periodic (3-30 MHz)
-Direction S – 135 degrees
5 TenTec RX331 (CEP2)
14 TenTec RX330

Pt. Reyes, California (38.06.00 N 122.56.00 W)
Auxiliary Receiver
12 Cubic CDR-3450
1 TCI 530 Log-Periodic OMNI

Moloka’i, Hawaii (21.12.23 N 157.12.30 W)
1 TCI 532-4 Log-Periodic (3-30 MHz)
-CEP Direction: 051 deg.
1 TCI 527-3 Log-Periodic (6.2-30 MHz)
-WP Direction: 283.5 deg.
2 TCI 527-B Log-Periodic (6.2-30 MHz)
NP Direction: 346 deg.
SP Direction: 188 deg.
38 LCR-2000

Moloka’I standby receiver 7 Cubic LCR-2000

Oahu, Hawaii 21.22.30.6 N 158.5.5.1 W
Oahu Auxiliary transceivers
7 TenTec RX330B

Barrow, Alaska 71.15.30.9 N 156.34.38.9 W
TCI 530-6
7 Cubic LCR-2000

Pulantat, Guam 13.25.00 N 144.44.47 E
1 Andrew Conical Monopole OMNI (3-30 MHz)
4 CDR-3250
6 TenTec RX331 (LDOCF)

 

[kma371]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone 3GS: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)

From what I know the towers are east of a city called Fairfield in California.

Yes, I understand that the controllers and transmitters (towers?) would be there for the Oceanic Areas CEP-1,2 and 3, but 8867 is used for the South Pacific area from Hawaii down to Fiji, Tahiti, Brisbane and Auckland - it doesn't touch mainland US. There's no need for the controller to be on Hawaii, but surely the transmitters should be?

Cheers - Martin

Sorry I thought the freq you were referring to was a CEP freq.

 

[majoco]

Thanks for that, Brandon, and from the NZ Airways Corp website here too! Should have looked a bit deeper myself!

Interesting that they use TenTec 331's and 330's at the Hawaii receiving station - always though they looked an interesting receiver, really a 340 without the front panel.

In the 70's I worked for the Airways Corp predecessor, the NZ Civil Aviation Authority, where part of my job was repairing the single channel crystal controlled AM (in those days) HF receivers, Redifon R155's or something like that.

Cheers - Martin ZL2MC

 

[kb2vxa]

"Also-can someone tell me why I get my own SF aero no stronger than I get NY-does it have something to do with the "takeoff angle" shooting most of the sig over me?"
Correct in a sense, there is no ground wave above about 3MHz and you're too close to the transmitter site for sky wave. The only reason you're getting any signal at all is you're within range of the direct wave, barely.

 

[majoco]

Interesting appendix in that document that Brandon found - good for newbies to read about propogation, ionosphere and all that stuff without going deeply into the bulls**t.

Sorry, got the location of Half Moon Bay wrong, it appear to around SF.

Cheers - Martin ZL2MC

 

[brandon]

Here is a similar document for the North Atlantic region
http://www.liveatc.net/downloads/NAT-HF-Guidance.pdf

It's dated from 2003 and probably missing some stuff. I am sure Gander has more than one transmit site because there is usually a distinct echo when listening to them on 8891.

 

[DaveNF2G]

San Franscisco? It's a big city in California with a lot of buildings, but that's not important right now.

RIP, Leslie Nielsen

 

[Oakland_Tower]

ARINC Not ATC

Please note that the employees at ARINC are not air traffic controllers, but comm operators relaying instructions from ATC. Most of what you hear from "San Francisco" originates with a controller at Oakland Center, located in Fremont Ca. They have a busy job, but the responsibility of separating the air traffic is with the FAA controller. Please read the job announcement for an opening in New York below:


Incorporated December 2, 1929, Aeronautical Radio, Inc., was chartered by the Federal Radio Commission (later to become the Federal Communications Commission) to serve as the airline industry's "single licensee and coordinator of radio communication outside of the government." Presently, ARINC provides international and domestic air and ground communications to our major airline customers.

About the opportunity: ARINC is looking for someone to join our team in Bohemia, Long Island, NY as a Communications Center Radio Operator. This is a rewarding and challenging position that affords you the opportunity to truly make a difference. If selected you be working in a faced paced environment where customer service, quality of communication and the ability to multi-task are held in the highest regard. In order to ensure this, the position is focused on providing 24/7 support. Shift work is mandatory.

Your responsibilities will include:
- The operation of HF/VHF radio, computer, and telephone communication equipment.
- Receive, copy and deliver Air Traffic Control messages, clearances, advisories, and information requests.
- Manage and route air to ground and ground to air traffic, radio messages and communications for dispatchers, pilots, air traffic controllers and other authorized agents.

Salary is $18.00/hour start. Increase to $19.50/hour after 6 months. After one year, your salary will increase to $20.50/hour.

ARINC will provide training on weather code symbols, Air Traffic Control and ARINC communications regulations, procedures and abbreviations and the operation of all applicable equipment. This is taught within an ARINC sponsored training program that must be successfully completed in order to continue employment.

 

[majoco]

Thanks for that, "Oakland Tower".

In effect that's what happens here, although the 'Radio Operators' are qualified ATC people who cycle through the system on a shift rotation - some shifts they may be the 'message boy' and other days they may be in the control centre. You can hear that the person on the radio is not 'in control' when an aircraft requests a change in flight level and the operator relays a reply to his request after some delay - the request has gone to the control centre and back again.

Cheers - Martin ZL2MC