Which Band Would You Select?

[JASII]

I have had some interest lately and have even viewed some interesting videos recently on this very topic. If you could select one band, 2 meters, 70 cm or 33 cm, for direct simplex HT to HT, using a rubber duck antenna, which would you choose and would you use analog or a digital mode? Would it depend on where you were using it? For example, if you and someone else were on a cruise ship (assuming it is legal & permitted by the cruise line), would you select 33 cm (900 Mhz)? Would you selected 70 cm (440 Mhz) in a typical suburban setting? What about out in the forest somewhere? Would you go with 2 meters (146 Mhz)?

With regards to analog vs digital, do ALL of the digital modulation modes perform pretty much the same for distance/range? For example, say you had similar portables, identical rubber duck antennas and you were at the exact same locations, I assume the simplex range using APCO P25, NXDN, DMR, YSF and D-Star would be the same, correct?

Some things that I have read pretty much came to the conclusion that using a portable (HT) with a rubber duck antenna, having the same transmit power setting, the range would be pretty much the same, regardless of which of those 3 bands and regardless if analog or digital modulation is used. What has your experience been?

 

[prcguy]

I've worked on ships and can say UHF is better for getting into more areas of a large metal ship than VHF. However don't expect two hand helds to talk everywhere over a large cruse ship. VHF would definitely be better in a forest. One of the jobs I had on a ship many years ago was to install leaky line on some lower decks to improve their ship board UHF comm system.

My experience with digital modes is they are all very similar and there is more differences between make and model of radio than the digital mode itself. I have P25, DMR, Fusion and D-star radios here and with very good quality radios, I can't tell much difference between them. Compare a Motorola mototrbo (DMR) radio to a cheap Chinese DMR radio and the recovered audio is much different and better on the Motorola. D-star and Fusion on the radios I have are nearly identical. For most people, they hear a particular radio and base the quality of the digital mode on that radio. Show them more radios with the same mode and the voice quality becomes more radio dependent.

To cover all bases you might consider a dual band DMR radio so you have a little better penetration in a ship on UHF and better distance on land through a forest on VHF.

 

[alcahuete]

The best radios hands down for ships are the DTR radios. I know this is the ham radio forum, but it needs to be added. So yes, 900 MHz would be the far better option over VHF or UHF. I have not been on a commercial freighter or anything, but there isn't a cruise ship in existence on which I haven't been able to achieve full ship coverage with the DTR650.

Digital vs. Analog, I've seen slightly better coverage in the fringe areas with DMR vs. Analog. Is it a huge difference? No. But it's also great not having static.

 

[2IR473]

I suspect the band you pick depends on your location/terrain. For me, in SE Pennsylvania, 2m works better than 70cm, but actually, 10m is best, with all our rolling hills.
As far as digital vs analog, I would go analog. I have a friend who is 26 miles away from me, and there is a 1000’ hill directly in between us. Fortunately, we are far enough away to be out of the shadow, and we can work each other on 2m FM simplex (25-50 watts into an omni directional antenna), but on digital voice (C4FM), it is mostly a fail. This is due to the fact that digital transmissions are either there or they are not. Yes, if is the RX signal is half an S unit in digital, it sounds DFQ, but there is no “gray” area with digital. At least analog transmissions can be copied even if the signal is down in the noise floor.
When I started in law enforcement, we had VHF low band radios (with UHF portables and crossband repeaters in the trunk), which I thought were great for our region. Of course, we had to go to 800 mHz (analog at first, digital later), and that sucked for a number of years until they spent even more money on additional towers ( half of my township was under heavy foliage, and 800 mHz doesn’t like pine trees). In the mean time, I enjoy reliable personal comms on VHF Hi and Lo, as well as at the top of the HF spectrum.
If it ain‘t broke, they can fix that.

 

[krokus]

2m for forested areas, or urban, due to better penetration.

70cm for shipboard, for better carrying through the human occupied waveguides. (Without the atmospheric absorption of 800/900 MHz.)

 

[AK9R]

2m for forested areas, or urban, due to better penetration.

I help out with an event each year that's conducted in the hills and hollers of southern Indiana. The area is heavily wooded and has many steep ravines. We use 6m FM simplex for communications as there are no 2m repeaters that aren't blocked by the hills and 6m reaches into the ravines fairly well.

 

[a417]

If you could select one band, 2 meters, 70 cm or 33 cm, for direct simplex HT to HT, using a rubber duck antenna, which would you choose and would you use analog or a digital mode?

[snip]

regardless of which of those 3 bands and regardless if analog or digital modulation is used. What has your experience been?

I help out with an event each year that's conducted in the hills and hollers of southern Indiana. The area is heavily wooded and has many steep ravines. We use 6m FM simplex for communications as there are no 2m repeaters that aren't blocked by the hills and 6m reaches into the ravines fairly well.

I don't think the OP was entertaining 6M as an option.

 

[mmckenna]

Pretty hard to find a ham that doesn't have a 2 meter radio. 2 meter analog is probably the one defacto standard amongst all hams.
But I'm sure there are a few that don't have it.

Personally 2 meters has done everything I've needed.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Convoying, with portables? UHF. Either DMR or very narrow NXDN. Cars are all but faraday cages on VHF, where as I have had very decent results on UHF portable to portable.

Convoying, with mobiles? VHF, NXDN very
Narrow. A few years back a friend and I played around with VHF NXDN very narrow. It was quite decent, and definitely better coverage than analogue. We both used 25w Kenwood mobiles for our experimentation. DMR would be my second choice. UHF would also be acceptable if we are not trying to break simplex distance records.

Portable use in the bush? VHF. Been there, done that for work.

In all cases I would use digital voice. Zero static, and with advances in DSP/noise cancelling/audio leveling, digital voice is soooooo much easier to listen to. No need to be fiddling with the volume, and no straining to make out voices in static.

The lack of static is one of the biggest selling features to me for going digital. I did a trip into the city today, 45 minutes from where I live. I didn’t even turn up the volume on my analogue radio, and had static free comms on my DMR portable.

The added bonus of digital is that at the point you can’t understand analogue, you will still get full audio recovery in digital. Especially NXDN very narrow. Another bonus with digital voice is the easy addition of AES encryption, and when using DMR simplex, not being found by nosey scanners users with close call.

 

[Firekite]

Another bonus with digital voice is the easy addition of AES encryption, and when using DMR simplex, not being found by nosey scanners users with close call.

Since when has that been legal?

 

[kayn1n32008]

Since when has that been legal?

Not everyone on this forum is located in the jurisdiction of the FCC.

Encryption on amateur frequencies IS legal where I live, so long as the key variable/cipher is not secret. This means if someone can hear me, and asks me for the key, I must share it.

 

[Firekite]

Not everyone on this forum is located in the jurisdiction of the FCC.

Most are. I don’t know what the laws are on international waters in the case of a cruise, but advocating something that’s very likely illegal for the OP and the vast majority of members here without explaining that wherever it is you live is an exception case isn’t a great idea.

Encryption on amateur frequencies IS legal where I live, so long as the key variable/cipher is not secret. This means if someone can hear me, and asks me for the key, I must share it.

That’s a pretty oddball approach, but hey, everywhere has some oddball rules here and there.

 

[millrad]

Not everyone on this forum is located in the jurisdiction of the FCC.

Encryption on amateur frequencies IS legal where I live, so long as the key variable/cipher is not secret. This means if someone can hear me, and asks me for the key, I must share it.

Out of curiosity, what country are you in?

 

[W5lz]

I've never been on a cruise ship so have no idea about that. Here, locally, 2 meter is more common than 70 cm and the other UHF bands aren't in use at all, so it would be a simple choice.

 

[iMONITOR]

Don't expect much using simplex regardess of the band. With regards to using radios on a cruise ship, I would think all the metal structures would cause some challenges.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Out of curiosity, what country are you in?

Canada

 

[NC1]

That is a very subjective question with an infinite number of variables, which has the potential of changing the answer if a single variable changes.
To get a real answer in the ball park of reality, we need to know the real world specifics that apply in a given situation.

Your question will result (as evidenced above) in the writers personal preferences being applied in a scenario, where what they like just happens to outperform anything else, given the set of circumstances they dreamed up since none were given.

In 99% of situations analog is king, some circumstances do occur where a digital mode works better, but a general rule of thumb is VHF works best in the open or wooded or hilly outdoors, and UHF works best in buildings or cities or ships. Any general situation given is highly subject to a personal bias being applied with certain conditions where their solution is the best solution.