Whip or Loop? Newbie Wonders..

[mstephens741]

I've never bought any antennae for SWL. I have ordered a Winradio Excalibur which will be here in a week or so and I want to have an antenna ready to plug in (of course!). My location is a mobile park which rules out longwires and tall antenna, both by rules and by property size. However, I think I can get away with an outdoor whip of 7 feet or so without much attention from people. The other choice is an indoor active.

The two whips I am considering are:
1. Rf Systems MTA Here: RF Systems MT, GMDSS and GMDSS-2 Antenna
2. AOR SA 7000 Here: AOR USA SA7000 | WIDE BAND RX ANTENNA

The Indoor Active is:
1. MFJ-1022 Here: MFJ-1022 Indoor Active Antenna

If I go with a whip, the base of the whip will be a couple feet above the gutter line, not 50 feet up on a mast! My primary listening will be 3Mhz to 30Mhz, and from reading I learn that in that HF range, height is not as important as in other ranges.

My question is kind of general. Is there a HUGE difference in performance among that group, or small differences? Is there a "standard" king of the hill for this application that I don't know about?

Any other comments welcome.

 

[SCPD]

If you just bought a high-end SDR then you do not want a k-mart antenna. Yes, you'll probably need some kind of compromise antenna but any indoor antenna will just kill your performance. You'll pick up nothing but RFI from inside your home.

You might want to consider: Apex Radio 303WA-2 Shortwave antenna. ApexRadio

You can always paint it to blend in with your surroundings.

The best antenna to go with is a Wellbrook loop. It's probably the best HF antenna for its size/cost versus its performance. You can also paint it if necessary.

There are two versions -- the ALA330 and 1530S+. If you are planning to monitor < 1.8 Mhz then you'll want the 1530S+. The 330 is best for just HF -- as in 2-30 Mhz.

Active Loop Antenna ALA330S N.A with PSU

Active Loop Antenna ALA1530S+ Imperium N.American

There's also the USA version from a different company: Shortwave Magnetic Loop Antenna (Model: RF PRO-1B) | Pixel Technologies

Some people like the Pixel and others prefer the Wellbrook loops.

I should mention that the Apex whip above is *passive* meaning there is no amplification. The loops are active which means there is amplification. There is a huge performance difference. (The whip being vertical will also likely pick up more random interference as well.)

The whip should be at least 10ft above your home if at all possible. The loops are actually OK at lower heights -- < 20ft.

 

[Arkmood]

My question is kind of general. Is there a HUGE difference in performance among that group, or small differences? Is there a "standard" king of the hill for this application that I don't know about?

Any other comments welcome.

Go with the whips,indooractives are (as mentioned) garbage... the "king of the hill" for your given situation are (as mentioned) the Wellbrook/Pixel (high cost).

You also welcome comments, so here's mine, having found myself in HF antenna compromises too numerous to mention:

Spend less time with antennas - because you'll always be 90 cents short of a dollar, and more time with your Winradio searching the bands... There will be less frustration, and hopefully more enjoyment out of the hobby.

 

[mstephens741]

Nice information folks. After watching the Pixel video I was quite impressed. Especially since he was using a Excalibur in his demonstration of noise rejection.

I have built two little antennae to putz with my Tecsun PL660. A sort-of longwire, and a tunable loop for AM. Both have massive amounts of noise. The loop could be tuned fairly well, but the sort-of-longwire was pretty much useless because I could only deploy it as a "toss over the roof." It definitely brought in lots of noise!

The $475 price of the Pixel is at the tippy-top of my budget, but after buying an expensive radio it would seem foolish not to be able to enjoy it. So, from all I know, I think that is the thing for me to buy in this circumstance.

 

[mstephens741]

Ordered the Pixel, but ARGH! it has a backlog of two weeks. 50 orders pending. Well, it will probably take me two weeks to learn the basics of operating the SDR anyway.

Thanks for the good "king of the hill" recommendations fellas.

 

[SCPD]

Spend less time with antennas - because you'll always be 90 cents short of a dollar, and more time with your Winradio searching the bands... There will be less frustration, and hopefully more enjoyment out of the hobby.

I agree to a point. If you bought one of the best SDRs -- why not buy one of the best HF antennas and be done with your system. You'll likely never need another set up.

Remember your listening post performance is always your weakest link:

BEST + WORST = CRAP
GOOD + GOOD = AVERAGE (You'll always keep searching for more)
BEST + BEST = JOY (You can stop thinking about hardware and get down to bidness!)

Now you can start cursing Mother Earth about her eccentric ionosphere like the rest of us!

 

[mstephens741]

BEST + WORST = CRAP
GOOD + GOOD = AVERAGE (You'll always keep searching for more)
BEST + BEST = JOY (You can stop thinking about hardware and get down to bidness!)

Now you can start cursing Mother Earth about her eccentric ionosphere like the rest of us!

Yeah, that's what I am hoping for. So far in my limited SWL experience, I've got an earful of static and not much else to show for the time. It's going to be great to be able to tune into something and actually hear what is being said.

 

[SCPD]

Join on us #WUNCLUB IRC channel when you get your setup finished.

 

[SCPD]

Ordered the Pixel, but ARGH! it has a backlog of two weeks. 50 orders pending. Well, it will probably take me two weeks to learn the basics of operating the SDR anyway.

Thanks for the good "king of the hill" recommendations fellas.

You can probably get the Wellbrook in about 10 days. It's a bit cheaper.

 

[mstephens741]

You can probably get the Wellbrook in about 10 days. It's a bit cheaper.

Well, now I am swimming in antennae. I have on order the PIXEL Loop, and I also have on order the DX ARAV-3 active whip. I may keep the whip for use when traveling in my Airstream. It looks like I could mount it on the ground.

So, I think I am going to have a good chance at a decent setup.

 

[mstephens741]

Join on us #WUNCLUB IRC channel when you get your setup finished.

I don't know a lot about IRC. I'll see if I can figure it out though. Thanks.

 

[zl2taw]

#WUNCLUB IRC you might even see me there on occasion

 

[SCPD]

I don't know a lot about IRC. I'll see if I can figure it out though. Thanks.

Download Java from java.com: Java + You and you can use the below link. Once you're connected, you can ask us for help.

JavaChat

 

[mstephens741]

Actually, I downloaded a nice portable app, and I was able to connect. But of course, no one was there when I connected. I shall try again....

 

[mstephens741]

Would this dialog mean I am in the right place?
QUOTE
* Connected. Now logging in...
* Please wait while we process your connection to ircnet.choopa.net.
* Welcome to the Internet Relay Network mstephens741!~mstephens@cpe-66-74-70-72.dc.res.rr.com
* Your host is ircnet.choopa.net, running version 2.11.2p1
* This server was created Tue Feb 15 2011 at 04:31:51 EST
* ircnet.choopa.net 2.11.2p1 aoOirw abeiIklmnoOpqrRstv
* RFC2812 PREFIX=(ov)@+ CHANTYPES=#&!+ MODES=3 CHANLIMIT=#&!+:40 NICKLEN=15 TOPICLEN=255 KICKLEN=255 MAXLIST=beIR:64 CHANNELLEN=50 IDCHAN=!:5 CHANMODES=beIR,k,l,imnpstaqr :are supported by this server
* PENALTY FNC EXCEPTS=e INVEX=I CASEMAPPING=ascii NETWORK=IRCnet :are supported by this server
* 0PNCAE4JB :your unique ID
* There are 52302 users and 5 services on 25 servers
* 92 perators online
* 66 :unknown connections
* 30707 :channels formed
* I have 1247 users, 0 services and 1 servers
* 1247 1647 :Current local users 1247, max 1647
* 52302 60206 :Current global users 52302, max 60206
* - ircnet.choopa.net Message of the Day -
* - 22/12/2010 4:52
END QUOTE

The I type WUNCLUB into my box and it takes me to #WUNCLUB, but I don't see anyone there. My user name is mstephens741.

I have never used IRC, so probably I am doing something wrong?

 

[Token]

If you do not see anyone you are probably in the wrong place or not in the room. Typically there are more than 70 people at any one time in that room, although only maybe 2 to 5 active, sometimes no one active for a couple hours at a time. For example right now I am at work, and have no access to IRC, but a computer at home is online and in that room so that I can see the frequencies people report when I get home this evening. So you should see my name in there, but inactive.

Lots of lurkers there, and for the ones who are not lurking the "active" time periods generally coincide with evening hours, both US and Euro.

You can also access it via a web browser and Java chat at JavaChat (the same link nick provided, just in case you missed it)

T!

 

[mstephens741]

I am obviously missing something on this IRC thing.

I downloaded a client and it works fine. I can connect to various IRC servers and channels just fine. However, I can not find any such channel as #WUNCLUB other than the one I accidentally created while looking.

It appears that I need to know a "server name" before I can find a "channel". However, I went to an all IRC search Search IRC, the most advanced IRC search engine. and no matter how I enter WUNCLUB, I come up empty.

Usually I am not this lame on computer stuff. But I can not find this channel no matter how I go about it.

Is there more info I need? Like a server name?

 

[SCPD]

Yes, you need to connect to the "starchat" IRC network. If you're just connecting to a random IRC network then you are likely creating the channel which is why you're by yourself.

A list of the servers is here: http://www.starchat.net/servers.php

 

[mstephens741]

Yes, you need to connect to the "starchat" IRC network. If you're just connecting to a random IRC network then you are likely creating the channel which is why you're by yourself.

A list of the servers is here: StarChat - Servers

BINGO! Got.it. Thanks. Yes, I needed the "starchat" info.

 

[toad99]

Loop

I've had my Pixel about three weeks (had to wait about 3 weeks due to a high volume of orders due to the Dayton Hamfest). If you can possibly swing it, add the small Hy-Gain rotor to the antenna. The ability to null out local noise by turning the loop is impressive. I find that the background noise direction can change a lot with frequency.