White Sage Fire - visitor question

[natedawg1604]

It just so happens I will soon be visiting the South Rim of the Grand Canyon, I'm hoping the smoke won't be too bad from that side. As someone quite unfamiliar with the area, any helpful hints on what would be good to monitor in terms of public safety, particularly as it pertains to the White Sage Fire?

* From what I'm gathering all the County Fire & LE agencies in Mohave and Coconino Counties are still on conventional VHF, except for Flagstaff PD & Fire, which are on NAU ASU P25 (is that correct?). And, I'm assuming I would want the Grand Canyon Freqs (minus LE), Kaibab National Forest, and AZ DPS District 2 (which is apparently on AWINS and UHF). I'm also thinking Department of Forestry and Fire Management, but I'm not sure which repeater covers the area I'll be visiting.

*Also, what SAR freqs are typically used in the Grand Canyon?

*In terms of the current White Sage Fire, are the Federal freqs listed in "Zone 5 dispatch center" ( WLM-A2A 1, WLM-A2A 2, WLM-A2G 1, and WLM-A2G 2) likely to be the primary freqs for Air Attack & Air to Ground? Also, does anyone know the freqs for a possible command repeater(s) that might be established?

 

[aprswatcher]

For White Sage fire monitor 118.2 am for air attack.
For the Dragon Bravo fire to the south monitor 135.375 am for air attack.
As always monitor 168.65 nfm for flight following and other frequencies associated with these fires.
122.925, 123.9, 122.85 am for Fixed wing /Rotary wing A2A/A2G
123.05 am for Rotary wing A2A
122.75 am for Fixed wing A2A
Tanker Bases on 123.975, 123.925, 122.675 all am.
Hopefully you will be able to catch some more frequencies.
73, Rex

 

[GlobalNorth]

Flagstaff is not exactly close to the Grand Canyon. It's about 1.5 hours away at 55-60 MPH.

The National Park Service is responsible for the interior of the park and it is a BIG park. Drink a lot of water the entire day prior to arriving! It gets very hot at places in the park - Phantom Ranch can exceed 111ª F / 45ªC and if you descend to the river, there is no breeze and is akin to visiting Death Valley.

Wear a long sleeved cotton shirt, bring sunscreen, and a broad brimmed hat [boonie hats] keep the Sun off your face and neck. There are few shade trees

 

[es93546]

It just so happens I will soon be visiting the South Rim of the Grand Canyon, I'm hoping the smoke won't be too bad from that side. As someone quite unfamiliar with the area, any helpful hints on what would be good to monitor in terms of public safety, particularly as it pertains to the White Sage Fire?

* From what I'm gathering all the County Fire & LE agencies in Mohave and Coconino Counties are still on conventional VHF, except for Flagstaff PD & Fire, which are on NAU ASU P25 (is that correct?). And, I'm assuming I would want the Grand Canyon Freqs (minus LE), Kaibab National Forest, and AZ DPS District 2 (which is apparently on AWINS and UHF). I'm also thinking Department of Forestry and Fire Management, but I'm not sure which repeater covers the area I'll be visiting.

*Also, what SAR freqs are typically used in the Grand Canyon?

*In terms of the current White Sage Fire, are the Federal freqs listed in "Zone 5 dispatch center" ( WLM-A2A 1, WLM-A2A 2, WLM-A2G 1, and WLM-A2G 2) likely to be the primary freqs for Air Attack & Air to Ground? Also, does anyone know the freqs for a possible command repeater(s) that might be established?

Make sure you put in both the north and south nets for the Kaibab National Forest. You may not hear much from the north net as the south rim is about 1000 feet lower than the north rim. Both the north rim fires are now in extended attack so you won't hear much action on either forest net.

Look up the NIFC net frequencies on the nationwide portion of the RR database. You click on the browse button of the database and look below the map that is displayed. Then scroll down to the federal government heading. Then click onto the National Interagency Fire Center. There is not guarantee that they will be using these frequencies so you might have to do a search between 169.5000 and 173.9875 to pick up the command nets. They will likely be using the tacticals listed under the NIFC radio system. However, you won't likely hear the northern of the two fires on tactical frequencies. All low powered radios (5W) on almost always handhelds, with a very few mobile radios involved, which are 30W or above.

You might not hear much on the north forest net as the northern fire might communicate to dispatch (identifies as "Williams) on repeaters near Jacob Lake. You might actually hear some traffic from the southern of the two large fires on the North Kaibab.

Finally, don't pronounce Kaibab as Kai bOb, it is Kai bAb. I don't know why so many people stick an "O" where there is an "A."

 

[GlobalNorth]

Yesterday, the fire was at 40,000 acres and ZERO containment.
I’d personally stay away - There are bison there and they may be running south to I-40 at 30 MPH.

 

[es93546]

Yesterday, the fire was at 40,000 acres and ZERO containment.
I’d personally stay away - There are bison there and they may be running south to I-40 at 30 MPH.

I don't understand why Bison on the North Kaibab would be running all the way south to I-40. They would have to cross the Grand Canyon in order to reach I-40. You say "the fire was at 40,000 acres) but you don't identify which fire you are talking about as there are two large fires burning on the North Kaibab Ranger District of the Kaibab National Forest.

This morning at a press conference and employee meeting the Superintendent of Grand Canyon National Park announced the the Dragon Bravo Fire has burned through the developed area of the North Rim. Some 40-80 structures have been destroyed, including the historic lodge and the NPS Visitors Center, as well as other important structures including the water system and sewage treatment plants. The North Rim is closed for the season. In my opinion this might stretch into subsequent seasons, given the limited time frame that construction can occur on the North Rim in part due to the limited time the highway is open.

 

[mmckenna]

This morning at a press conference and employee meeting the Superintendent of Grand Canyon National Park announced the the Dragon Bravo Fire has burned through the developed area of the North Rim. Some 40-80 structures have been destroyed, including the historic lodge and the NPS Visitors Center, as well as other important structures including the water system and sewage treatment plants. The North Rim is closed for the season. In my opinion this might stretch into subsequent seasons, given the limited time frame that construction can occur on the North Rim in part due to the limited time the highway is open.

Wow, that sucks. An old college girl fried worked there and I stopped by to visit with her about 2 years ago. Always preferred that side of the canyon. That's really sad to hear about the loss. I've camped a few times at Jacobs Lake and really liked that area.

 

[es93546]

Wow, that sucks. An old college girl fried worked there and I stopped by to visit with her about 2 years ago. Always preferred that side of the canyon. That's really sad to hear about the loss. I've camped a few times at Jacobs Lake and really liked that area.

The shame and sense of loss for me personally is I've never driven to the North Rim. The closest I got to it was to do a day hike from Phantom Ranch when I was in college. I was on a trip from the South Rim for the purpose of doing periodic maintenance of some instruments near Phantom Ranch that we used to monitor air quality in the canyon due to the recent (at the time) Navajo Power Plan that was burning coal. On a Friday we made good time down the South Kaibab trail and did our work that evening. So on Saturday we decided we would walk the 15 mile (one way) North Kaibab trail to the top and back. I wasn't feeling all that peppy that day so I fell behind the group that eventually made it to where they think the North Rim trailhead was located. I hit the snow just below the tunnel that is near the top of the trail when the necessary post holing greatly made me feel worse. So I didn't even reach the point that the rest of our group guessed was the North Rim trailhead. I lived in Flagstaff for 5 years, including 2 1/2 going to Northern Arizona University in the Forestry School, but never made it to the North Rim. In fact, I only made it to Jacob Lake once and the North Rim Highway was closed for the winter (in April).

I expect that the facilities won't be replaced (which are really unreplaceable) for 3-5 years and by that time I might be too old to travel there. Darn, I wish I would have gotten the trip done when I lived in Flagstaff.

 

[mmckenna]

I expect that the facilities won't be replaced (which are really unreplaceable) for 3-5 years and by that time I might be too old to travel there. Darn, I wish I would have gotten the trip done when I lived in Flagstaff.

Sorry to hear that. Yeah, it was much nicer there, less people and just a better vibe. South rim always seemed like everyone was in a rush to see the Canyon and get out as fast as they could.

I've never done the hike down into the canyon and not sure I could at my age, at least not in one day.

Jacob Lake was one of my favorite places. I've been there a few times, spring, summer and I think in the fall. Camped there at least once with just a bit of late spring snow on the ground. Stopped at the little lodge there at the intersection for breakfast once, and talked to some of the college students working there for the season.

Loved the Vermillion Cliffs/Navajo Bridge area, fun to watch the rafts pass under you.

A lot a really good scenery in that part of the country. Wouldn't mind living in Flagstaff.

Sad to see these places burn, but it's part of the cycle. I'm sure the lodge will eventually get rebuilt.

 

[natedawg1604]

Update: it was pretty interesting to see and listen to a wild land fire in another state. It was an incredible experience to see the grand canyon, we hiked along the trails near the road on the south rim and some of the Bright Angel trail (it's open for about 9 miles).

The White Sage command repeater is on 172.4, 131.8 pl. (I'm not sure if the dragon bravo fire used a different one).
It *appears* they used 2 air attack feqs; it seemed like aircraft initially entering the area used 132.2 to speak with air attack. Helicopters were directed to change to 120.575 to speak with air attack. (Someone more knowledgeable than me may be aware of the exact terms for this)


*The primary air-ground appeared to be 168.75. I heard quite a bit of traffic on Fire Hopi and South Rim Helibase, as well as National flight following.

I heard numerous references to "team 5", not sure who this was. However I did hear Blue Ridge IHC coming in on 132.2. I wasn't able to hear any simplex comms from the fire ground itself, which is not surprising (plus I only had a portable scanner).

I also brought my Kenwood TK 5210 portable, that worked fabulous to monitor the park freqs as well as local SO & fire.

On a somewhat unrelated note, does anyone know if local LE in Coconino County are able to monitor DPS troopers on UHF? And what about vise versa?