Who Where What and How is RR Database Updated?

[TailGator911]

Excuse me if this is a silly question or has been asked and answered before, but what exactly does a Database Administrator in each state do when it comes to maintaining the Frequency Database here? I know that freqs and systems are voluntarily submitted then verified by another volunteer, but is there anyone who actually gets the ULS new grant licenses from the FCC website and submits and allocates them to the database on a monthly basis? I am just curious as to how this works - thanks!

JD
kf4anc

 

[buddrousa]

When We (the RR members) report new or changes the re database admin updates the state or area they are assigned to.

 

[bravo14]

Some RR Admin does 1 state or more. Also depends how many submits there are some cover other RR Admin areas.

 

[TailGator911]

Thanks, budd, I guess what I am getting at is I know the ULS FCC system releases licensing information in a timely fashion (monthly? weekly?), and I was curious if someone is assigned the task of updating the RRDB with that information in each state? Or, is the RRDB entirely dependent on voluntarily submitted information on systems?

 

[fxdscon]

Thanks, budd, I guess what I am getting at is I know the ULS FCC system releases licensing information in a timely fashion (monthly? weekly?), and I was curious if someone is assigned the task of updating the RRDB with that information in each state? Or, is the RRDB entirely dependent on voluntarily submitted information on systems?

Raw data from FCC records is not used for the RR database. Users need to directly verify that a frequency or talkgroup is actually in use, and specifically by who before submission.

Some reading here at these 2 links:

https://wiki.radioreference.com/images/1/1e/RadioReference.com_Database_Administrator_Handbook_1.8.pdf

RR Database Submission Guidelines - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

.

 

[nd5y]

Thanks, budd, I guess what I am getting at is I know the ULS FCC system releases licensing information in a timely fashion (monthly? weekly?), and I was curious if someone is assigned the task of updating the RRDB with that information in each state? Or, is the RRDB entirely dependent on voluntarily submitted information on systems?

Are you talking about the FCC license data for each county like this?

RR Database Home

The most complete database of radio communications data

www.radioreference.com

That comes from the FCC ULS database which is updated every night (business days that the FCC is open).
The FCC posts an updated database file every night and RR dowloads the file usually once a week. You would have to ask Lindsay exactly how it is done.

 

[TailGator911]

Ok so the ULS new grant licenses are downloaded once a week, then the frequencies have to be verified by the DBAs before they are listed in the RRDB? Yeah I wondered about this simply because a business or an agency getting the license may not even be active yet and applying for a new license does not necessarily mean the new frequencies are being used at that time. I think that answers my question, thanks guys

JD
kf4anc

 

[bravo14]

Sometimes when I submit something it can take that day or a week or so depending on Admin since it's all Volunteer work or they are on vacation.

 

[nd5y]

Ok so the ULS new grant licenses are downloaded once a week, then the frequencies have to be verified by the DBAs before they are listed in the RRDB?

DB admins only add stuff to the DB that the users verify (supposedly) and submit.
They don't do anything with the raw FCC ULS license data. They can't because the FCC data doesn't contain anything like PL, DCS, NAC, CC, TGID channel names or what the licensee uses the frequency for.

In some counties/states the RRDB is missing a lot of stuff and has a lot of old, obsolete, or bad data that nobody corrects.

 

[ecps92]

Not verified, but actually Confirmed/Identitified as actually in-use via over-the-air monitoring and to include PL/DPL/NAC or other DMR info and some sort of validation of the type of use.

I have a local freq, that if we relied on the FCC, it would be under the Police Dept [as they did the license] but the actual use is day-day Ops of the School Dept - all validated using a common technique call Over-The-Air monitoring, then submitted

Ok so the ULS new grant licenses are downloaded once a week, then the frequencies have to be verified by the DBAs before they are listed in the RRDB? Yeah I wondered about this simply because a business or an agency getting the license may not even be active yet and applying for a new license does not necessarily mean the new frequencies are being used at that time. I think that answers my question, thanks guys

JD
kf4anc

 

[wa8pyr]

Ok so the ULS new grant licenses are downloaded once a week, then the frequencies have to be verified by the DBAs before they are listed in the RRDB? Yeah I wondered about this simply because a business or an agency getting the license may not even be active yet and applying for a new license does not necessarily mean the new frequencies are being used at that time. I think that answers my question, thanks guys.

Our Administrators do not do anything at all with data from ULS. That's simply a direct pull from the FCC database, and is only there for RR members to peruse if they wish. ULS data is not part of the regular RR database (ie the part that you can download to your scanner); some licensed frequencies never get used, which is one of the many reasons we add to the RR database only information which has been verified via over-the-air monitoring and submitted by an RR user.

 

[n5ims]

How the process works (based on my experience and a few guesses based on logic). Database folks, please feel free to correct what I got wrong or provide more (or less) detail as appropriate.

1. A RR user is listening to his scanner and runs across a conventional frequency, trunked frequency, trunked system, or talkgroup that they haven’t heard before. They head to the RR database to see what it is, but don’t find it so they assume it’s something new.
2. That user listens closely to what they found to try to figure out what agency or agencies it belongs to and who is using it. Sometimes it’s pretty easy with someone on what they’re listening to says “Radio check on xxxx State Police Tactical 4”. Other times they have to listen for quite a while to clues in the transmissions like what are they talking about and who would talk like that (“I’m scoping the sewer line westerly on Salem Ave” might imply that the sewer board is using that channel and since you know that Salem Ave in the next town runs east-west it’s probably their sewer board using the channel). It may take lots of listening to correctly identify a channel.
3. Once the RR user is confident in what they hear or needs help identifying it, they may create a new thread in their state (or metro, if available) forum to get other users to help in identifying the channel.
4. Once the channel had been identified with as much certainty as possible and includes the easy stuff that the radio will give you (PL Tone, frequency, talkgroup number if appropriate, trunking system if appropriate, etc.) the user uses the Submit Info button to enter what they’ve found and identified (providing what they know and detailing what they only guess) so a database administrator that handles that state’s area of the database can enter the data into the database (or respond to the user asking for clarification or more information if necessary).
5. The new entry shows up in the RR database.

 

[nd5y]

4 1/2. The user should verify and submit the FCC callsign (for non-federal systems) along with the other data.

 

[jonwienke]

That tracks with the submissions I've made.

 

[INDY72]

Correct, and due to us trying to only use verified information is the reason we make you do a little extra footwork such as: If its an analog frequency, we want you to verify WHO is using it for WHAT, and what TONES are in use on it. This verifies you are not just copy/pasting from the FCC data, and not just copy/pasting from our db. That happens a lot more often that you would think! P25, whats the NAC? P25 TRS, SysID, WACN, Site ID's, CC, ACC's, is it Phase I (FDMA) or Phase II (TDMA) in use? DMR, whats the Color Codes, Time Slots, TG's? If its DMR TRS, is it an Con+, Cap+, Cap MAX/T3, XPT? SysID, Site ID's, LCN's? NXDN, what RAN? NXDN TRS, iDAS, NX48/NX96, SysID, Site ID's, LCN's, TG's?

 

[garys]

Wait! You mean verifying something by actually putting the frequency into the scanner? Like you and I have been doing for longer than I want to say? What a radical idea.

Not verified, but actually Confirmed/Identitified as actually in-use via over-the-air monitoring and to include PL/DPL/NAC or other DMR info and some sort of validation of the type of use.

I have a local freq, that if we relied on the FCC, it would be under the Police Dept [as they did the license] but the actual use is day-day Ops of the School Dept - all validated using a common technique call Over-The-Air monitoring, then submitted

 

[ecps92]

Saves me some time and $$ ordering those pesky crystals from Kustom TV or worse over on Water Street

Wait! You mean verifying something by actually putting the frequency into the scanner? Like you and I have been doing for longer than I want to say? What a radical idea.