why does the g5 and g4 work so well on simulcast systems?

[hardsuit]

mitbr - Its quite simple really. Because the Unication line uses Narrowband reception it can make a superior radio. Unication can make a smaller and compact Receiver as well as shield it better from Noise and Interference.
Scanners by nature are Wideband and operate in Blocks of Frequencies. they are prone to Out of Band noise and Interference from AM and FM Broadcast radio. Which is why I use a BNC FM Filter attached to my Handheld Antenna. for AIR shows I use a AM Filter that filters AM Radio from strong Broadcasters.
I also have Communication Receivers like the ICOM R30 that has a Wideband Continious Coverage.
the ICOM gets 100Khz - 3304 Mhz (cell blocked) , but the Tuner in the ICOM is superior, I can Hear more , and more Clearly with an ICOM than any other scanner. but the ICOM does not Trunktrack.
the ICOM is inherently more Sensitive to Fringe transmissions and less prone to Receive noise or Interference, due to its superior Receiver design. ICOM also comes with Built in filtering for AM and Noise Balance . I rarely have to use any BNC filters for my ICOM , but it does improve it somewhat.

 

[mitbr]

Thanks for everyone's responses!!
The consensus seems to be that the Unication pagers are band limited and therefore will perform better than a broad spectrum receiver which makes good sense.
All I know is that driving down the road with my G5 in the cup holder of my car with its stubby antenna it has loud audio and is easily heard even at highway speeds and is rock solid never misses a beat.
If I could only convince more people to try it sigh..... there loss i guess.
Tim

 

[eorange]

That's what amazes me about my G4 too...it's way down low in my SUV cupholder with a stubby antenna and provides perfect reception, as if I had a mobile antenna.

And that narrowband design is, simply put, superior and solid in ways most of us wouldn't really understand. Which is ok, because even though I wonder as well...I just turn it on and enjoy it.

For the people who bash it ("it's not a true scanner", and, I was even told by a major Uniden blowhard that I was lying about its performance), well...perhaps it's not for them anyway. Just as well.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

 

[W8RMH]

I would use one TG per knob position, but one downfall with this radio that I wish they would fix is the inability to change zones while the radio is receiving a signal. The only option is to keep one knob position un-programmed in each zone, limiting its capacity even more. Otherwise the radio works great and I accept the lack of scanner features, but I would like to see a hold and delay. function.

 

[eorange]

I do this: position 8 scans all TGs in the zone. But I make position 7 contain lesser used TGs whenever possible, like Special Event, TAC, a smaller agency, etc. So 7 allows an easier change.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

 

[seth21w]

I have both sds100 and g4, the sds100 is about as good as the g4 but it is so bulky with the new battery and the long rs800 i have to run, i only use it as a base but my g4 goes with me everywhere in my shirt pocket and the battery last 12-14 hours vs sds100 7-8 hrs with the big battery.

 

[bob550]

I would use one TG per knob position, but one downfall with this radio that I wish they would fix is the inability to change zones while the radio is receiving a signal. The only option is to keep one knob position un-programmed in each zone, limiting its capacity even more. Otherwise the radio works great and I accept the lack of scanner features, but I would like to see a hold and delay. function.

I suspect the inability to change zones, or for that matter engage any of the menus, reflects the pager's mission-critical purpose. Radio calls are prioritized over all else.

 

[rr60]

The original title thread asked why. I wrote Ray and asked him to confirm my suspicions. He promptly replied I was 100 percent correct.

The largest scanner manufacturer has chosen to use various iterations of attempts to decode P25 Phase II. Not one of those models use the gold standard. The gold standard recognized by APCO is called AMBE +2.

This is licensed and royalties paid by almost every major two radio manufacturer. Unication uses AMBE +2. The G5 next to a $7,000 radio on P2 decode is identical. My Unication is outstanding digital decode.

What I have learned through the G5 is that I will never own a radio for P2 that does not use a AMBE +2 vocoder. Anything else to date is inferior for many reasons such as decode rate and power consumption. Period.

That Unication deployed AMBE +2 with little or no increase and had a $100 promotion says much to me about their commitment to this product. Kudo’s Unication.

From DE DanielsElectronics Ltd.


“Recently DVSI has developed a Half-Rate (3.6 kbps) vocoder that has been proposed for use in P25 Phase 2. Designed as an extension of the current 7.2 kbps IMBETM vocoder used in P25, DVSI’s new Half-Rate vocoder operates at a net bit rate of 2.45 kbps for voice information and a gross bit rate of 3.6 kbps after error control coding. This represents a 50% reduction in bit rate as compared to the current 7.2 kbps IMBETM vocoder used in P25 Phase 1.
DVSI has also introduced new Enhanced Vocoders for P25 based on DVSI’s latest AMBE+2TM Vocoder technology. These Enhanced Vocoders are backward compatible with both the standard P25 Full- Rate and proposed Half-Rate vocoders, while providing improved voice quality, better noise immunity, tone capability, and other new features. The Enhanced Vocoders significantly improve the voice performance of the P25 system, while facilitating the migration and interoperability between new and existing P25 equipment. DVSI’s vocoder technology is used extensively in digital radio systems and in mobile satellite telephony worldwide.”

 

[mitbr]

Thank you for this info. I figured it had to be something different than Uniden is using. This was a good read thanks again!!
Tim

 

[GTR8000]

The original title thread asked why. I wrote Ray and asked him to confirm my suspicions. He promptly replied I was 100 percent correct.

The largest scanner manufacturer has chosen to use various iterations of attempts to decode P25 Phase II. Not one of those models use the gold standard. The gold standard recognized by APCO is called AMBE +2.

This is licensed and royalties paid by almost every major two radio manufacturer. Unication uses AMBE +2. The G5 next to a $7,000 radio on P2 decode is identical. My Unication is outstanding digital decode.

What I have learned through the G5 is that I will never own a radio for P2 that does not use a AMBE +2 vocoder. Anything else to date is inferior for many reasons such as decode rate and power consumption. Period.

That Unication deployed AMBE +2 with little or no increase and had a $100 promotion says much to me about their commitment to this product. Kudo’s Unication.

If you're implying that Uniden doesn't employ DVSI's AMBE+2 vocoder, you're wrong. It's right on page 2 of the SDS100's manual:

http://www.uniden.info/download/ompdf/SDS100om.pdf

And for the record, the vocoder is only responsible for encoding and decoding the voice; it is not the reason why any particular receiver handles simulcast modulation better than any other. You're confusing the voice processing part of the equation with the design of the receiver itself. If the receiver can't make sense of inbound RF, than it doesn't make one difference which vocoder is being used.

@UPMan

 

[boatbod]

And for the record, the vocoder is only responsible for encoding and decoding the voice; it is not the reason why any particular receiver handles simulcast modulation better than any other. You're confusing the voice processing part of the equation with the design of the receiver itself. If the receiver can't make sense of inbound RF, than it doesn't make one difference which vocoder is being used.

@UPMan

I couldn't agree more! An AMBE codec - no matter how good it is, and whether or not it employs DVSI's own code - cannot reproduce speech if the raw data is missing or grossly incorrect. Sure, it can fill in a few gaps with frame repeats and adaptive smoothing, but if the RF isn't being received and accurately turned into a solid stream of voice codewords the quality of the codec won't matter.

 

[mikewazowski]

The original title thread asked why. I wrote Ray and asked him to confirm my suspicions. He promptly replied I was 100 percent correct.

The largest scanner manufacturer has chosen to use various iterations of attempts to decode P25 Phase II. Not one of those models use the gold standard. The gold standard recognized by APCO is called AMBE +2.

Unfortunately as others have pointed out, you're both wrong. As GTR800 has pointed out, the SDS100 uses AMBE+2 as well as the BCDx36HP series.

It's what you put into the decoder that counts.

 

[KevinC]

Unfortunately as others have pointed out, you're both wrong. As GTR800 has pointed out, the SDS100 uses AMBE+2 as well as the BCDx36HP series.

It's what you put into the decoder that counts.

So it's GIGO?

 

[mikewazowski]

Ha. I had typed that in full but deleted it before posting.

But yes, GIGO or you get out what you put into it.

 

[mitbr]

Thanks for the input and correction guys....just learning here and knowledge is a good thing!
So the main reason the Unication performs better than the older Unidens on simulcast is its narrow band reception.Focused on one or two bands.
Tim

 

[goodmore]

After listening to my local simulcast system on my G5 I am spoiled. The 436 has been assigned other duties. Duties that it is better suited for. They both see action. The right tool for the job.

 

[Astrak]

Thanks for the input and correction guys....just learning here and knowledge is a good thing!
So the main reason the Unication performs better than the older Unidens on simulcast is its narrow band reception.Focused on one or two bands.
Tim

Not really, most scanners with the exception of the SDS100 feed the DSP(Vocoder) with data from the FM discriminator tap. The SDS100 and the G series use I/Q data I/Q Data for Dummies this is also a good read https://forums.radioreference.com/t...to-work-properly-in-my-scanner-thread.333609/

 

[rr60]

Not really, most scanners with the exception of the SDS100 feed the DSP(Vocoder) with data from the FM discriminator tap. The SDS100 and the G series use I/Q data I/Q Data for Dummies this is also a good read https://forums.radioreference.com/t...to-work-properly-in-my-scanner-thread.333609/

Thanks for that.

 

[Jimco]

I have both a G5 and an SDS100, and one of the systems I monitor regularly (and by that, I mean almost every waking moment) is a difficult simulcast system that my 436HP is worthless with. My SDS100 performs almost as well as my G5 when it has a strong enough signal. An aftermarket antenna tuned to 800MHz really helps.

One area where the Unication continues to seriously outperform others is battery. The G5 charges in about 4 hours and then lasts easily 16+ hours. The SDS100 takes about 8-10 hours to charge and then lasts about 7 hours. Outside of that shortcoming, I love my SDS100 and find it to be a great complement to my G5.

Jim

 

[mitbr]

Thanks for your input!
Tim