Why isn't Nextel / iDen used in public safety?

[b52hbuff]

I'm not a radio professional, but just a hobbyist. It looks like Motorola is the most popular trunking for public safety. Followed by EDACS and then LTR.

I was wondering, given the 'security' of Nextel/iDen, why isn't it used for public safety?

Also, why so few PS users on LTR?

 

[N_Jay]

I'm not a radio professional, but just a hobbyist. It looks like Motorola is the most popular trunking for public safety. Followed by EDACS and then LTR.

I was wondering, given the 'security' of Nextel/iDen, why isn't it used for public safety?

Lots of reasons, but the biggest are probably the management issues with ownership and control and the technical issues with coverage and redundancy/reliability.

 

[jpm]

It is in my town and surrounding towns. Basicly here in Illinois Northwest central dispatch towns.

 

[W2SJW]

Most public-safety radio systems have a backup way of continuing communication if a repeater or trunk system goes down (conventional users go to simplex channels, trunk systems go into fail-soft mode if the controller quits, etc...), NEXTEL has none of this (and I'm not knocking them, I love my NEXTEL's!). There is no real 'safety backup' built into those type of systems. I can't comment on SouthernLinc, though. That's an iDEN network used by a number of public organizations.

Many departments around here in NJ have bunches of officers with them - a lot of officers want 'totally private' conversations between themselves, and that's a major reason why they buy them personally.

 

[b52hbuff]

Many departments around here in NJ have bunches of officers with them - a lot of officers want 'totally private' conversations between themselves, and that's a major reason why they buy them personally.

Right, essentially it is a cellphone backup, or a private channel. It isn't used as a dispatch channel.

Does iDen have the ability to broadcast to multiple users like a conventional repeater or trunked system does?

 

[N_Jay]

Does iDen have the ability to broadcast to multiple users like a conventional repeater or trunked system does?

iDEN has group communications, but it uses a lot of resources, so Nextel tries to limit its use.

 

[kb5udf]

Ltr

In the areas I frequent(LA and MS), LTR seems to be used primarily by medium sized industry and smaller counties/cities.

 

[N_Jay]

In the areas I frequent(LA and MS), LTR seems to be used primarily by medium sized industry and smaller counties/cities.

1) LTR was never designed as a public safety system.
2) It is primarily used for low cost opperations.

 

[scannerfreak]

I thought I heard recently that Nextel plans to launch a system aimed towards Public Safety using the iDEN technology...In fact, I believe they even said they want to be a major part of Public Safety Communications.

 

[N_Jay]

I thought I heard recently that Nextel plans to launch a system aimed towards Public Safety using the iDEN technology...In fact, I believe they even said they want to be a major part of Public Safety Communications.

I think they say that about every chance they can. :evil:

Till you push them on it, then well we want to "assits" with public safety, but not "Take over"! :roll: :roll: :roll:

They want the income but not the risk!

 

[1268]

N jay , as a matter of fact they do have what I consider a half way decent plan, have only seen the preliminary stuff but our county as well as several more that I know use Nextel daily. I have read all the negative posts here but to tell you the truth Nextel saved our a** on a couple of occasions.Also remember there under new management and I have noticed the difference, a little off topic but what if they reband Nextel etc and the 800mhz sytems are still getting interference, not saying that will happen but just a what if ? 1268

 

[diskmonger]

I'm not a radio professional, but just a hobbyist. It looks like Motorola is the most popular trunking for public safety. Followed by EDACS and then LTR.

I was wondering, given the 'security' of Nextel/iDen, why isn't it used for public safety?

Also, why so few PS users on LTR?

Why, are you not wanting to enjoy your radio hobby anymore? Your not going to be listening to anything if it is IDen.

 

[b52hbuff]

Why, are you not wanting to enjoy your radio hobby anymore? Your not going to be listening to anything if it is IDen.

I'm curious. I like listening to a lot of things. Started with airplanes at airshows, then went to public safety, and then IG stuff. I really enjoy theme park scanning.

One of my potential 'major targets' was Disney World, but they went Nextel. I was curious what the potential was that other agencies might go Nextel.

But no need to 'finger Nextel'. Municipalities could choose to encrypt their P25 and I'd still be listening to noise...

 

[N_Jay]

N jay , as a matter of fact they do have what I consider a half way decent plan, have only seen the preliminary stuff but our county as well as several more that I know use Nextel daily. I have read all the negative posts here but to tell you the truth Nextel saved our a** on a couple of occasions.Also remember there under new management and I have noticed the difference, a little off topic but what if they reband Nextel etc and the 800mhz sytems are still getting interference, not saying that will happen but just a what if ? 1268

What if is a fun game to play when you are unsure of the results.

We know where the interference comes from, we now what the rebanding is going to do, so therefore we know that the interference is being addressed.

Nextel simply can not afford to put in enough coverage or enough redundancy for most public safety uses.

I am not saying that all public safety systems are up to snuff, but with a network like the Nextel network you are adding a whole new set of issues.

 

[1268]

True I agree Nextel would have alot of work to do and it has it's problems, believe me! But as a back up or for officer to officer communications it serves it's purpose. I Am not saying they do not have to take responsibility for there actions, just it sure would tick off some people who went through rebanding, of course that would be the feds fault, lets fire the head of the FCC! :twisted: Sorry I coudn't resist! Have a good night all. 1268

 

[n4voxgill]

Tim Donohue from Nextel did say that in the future as they move most users up to 2GHz, that they will have the infrastructure in place to provide public safety commuications. They can do just like AIRINC that is also using iDEN and use higher power handsets and make it look like an astro system. this would provide agencies that are not trunked to use it without having the expense of building an infrastructure. Tim is a very savy businessman so it will be interesting to see what all they do.

 

[jim202]

The original biggest problem with the LTR systems was the original user number limitation. In later years, the max number of users was increased. However it is still lacking in many of the features that a public safety system needs. If all you need is just basic push the mic button and talk, it's fine. They have added multi site abilities as the years have gone on.

J

I'm not a radio professional, but just a hobbyist. It looks like Motorola is the most popular trunking for public safety. Followed by EDACS and then LTR.

I was wondering, given the 'security' of Nextel/iDen, why isn't it used for public safety?

Also, why so few PS users on LTR?

 

[N_Jay]

Tim Donohue from Nextel did say that in the future as they move most users up to 2GHz, that they will have the infrastructure in place to provide public safety commuications. They can do just like AIRINC that is also using iDEN and use higher power handsets and make it look like an astro system. this would provide agencies that are not trunked to use it without having the expense of building an infrastructure. Tim is a very savy businessman so it will be interesting to see what all they do.

I think Motorola has stooped building the"higher powered" handsets. And they were only 1 watt, so that is less than 3dB above the 0.6 watt consumer units.

ARINC does not have to cover the same wide areas that most public safety agencies have to cover.

There are also significant back-haul reliability and redundancy issues that would be unaffordable for a public carrier like Nextel to address in all but a few select markets.

 

[durango5550]

Nextel is not a system you would want your local police and fire to rely on for dispatching and what not , very unreliable. I would not trust my life or anyone elses life on a nextel phone especially around here in eastern ohio where hills and valleys mess with all phone service. And lets face it ITS A PHONE plain and simple , my opinion stick to what works and thats definitely not Nexthell

 

[WayneH]

ITS A PHONE plain and simple

It's not a phone either.....it's the sites that are thrown together like a cell/PCS phone site. Not enough battery backup, poorly maintained amps, and no on-site genset (things most LMR sites have). And then a complex authentication system that hiccups preventing service to be used.

-Wayne