Will the CHP ever go to the trunked system?

[avtarsingh]

chp is all i listen to and it works just fine and in wider areas than many many systems

listening to chp brown on sunday was fun - oklahoma skip was in and it was pretty cool to hear oklahoma chp along with the chp

i bet the chico guys were saying "wow they talk hicker than us"

if you are looking for a high tech environment.. you should not be in law enforcement

esp chp
calif has typically been way ahead of the country on techniques and ways to deal with law enforcement issues
where calif law enforcement has always lacked .. has been in technology (ironic huh )

chp was just issued tasers within the last 18months and told by moron admins to wear it up front in a cross draw fashion (cause it makes the uniform look pretty ) aside from the fact that cross draw is the worst possible way to carry a weapon for officer weapon retention

what other moronic policies do you think they make when it comes to a radio system? "lets put in nice expensive new repeaters and order the techs to defeat the repeater id ers " so even a simple thing like relieving dispatchers from parroting call signs all the damned time like its still 1979 just cause it "might" interfere with the officers broadcasts this is from admin ignorance over EVERY other agency using simple things like id er s just basic stupid stuff we still do cause nobody will stand up and say "prorgam the ider and stop yelling out callsigns like you have tourettes all the time "

cough visteon spend millions of dollars on a failed program when officers could have been given new tk-690 and a federal siren controller and would have new radios

nothing like holding up progress while waiting for more progress

 

[Hooligan]

Wow, you're a tough act to follow...

The only big problem I have with your comments is that you seem to be approaching the matter from an entertainment perspective -- you enjoyed hearing the skip on CHP Brown, and you projected your pleasure onto the CHP, expecting the officers enjoyed it too.

While I'm a radio-geek just like you, the more important factors to me are officer-safety, efficiency & then as a tax-payer, fiscal responsibility.

Also you claim that LEs typically aren't very high tech. There are plenty of them that are, and the technology --if used right-- can be a force-multiplier. License plate recognition systems are a great example, though I concur with what I think you were hinting at -- it always boils down to a well-trained & experienced officer out on the streets, with or without high tech.

You make a joke out of cross-draw positioning for the X-26s, & say it was done because it looks pretty. My guess is it was done to provide a separate muscle-memory reflex from that of drawing deadly force (pistol).

But getting back to one point either you kinda made, or I kinda thought of when reading your post:

The current system -- the VHF low-band mainstay, VHF high-band handheld & vehicular repeater, MDC with GPS & PCS tie-in to the data network (plus issued cell-phone/pager, programmable scanner, and sometimes a separate radio for the local LEAs) still seems to work OK! A hodgepodge, perhaps, but it still works.

People have been saying that the VHF low-band gear isn't really supported any more. Well, with an agency the size of CHP (& we might as well throw in the other state agency low-band users still out there), it seems like a company could make a decent profit by making/marketing VHF low-band gear for the state, let alone the other states & countries still using VHF low band. I expect most vendors are pushing the 700/800 stuff & playing up the INTEROPERABILITY buzzword, and with INTEROPERABILITY being the latest craze, if you want funding, you have to demonstrate how your fancy new system is going to be INTEROPERABLE. While it's not the best (because it relies on a lot of technology), CHP has interoperability thanks to their own pre-deployed special multi-radio vehicles & the capabilities that any decent county OES has.

I think a lot of the situation is psychology. VHF-Low Band for CHP use dates back to what, almost 70 years ago, whereas 700MHz P25 trunked would be new, & thus automagically much superior technology, and you're not a decent person if you don't want the best for our boys & girls in Silvertan! Now certainly if you need a new system, VHF low-band isn't the way they should go. I've already written a response here about how *I* think they should go.

Meanwhile, I think they're doing a good job resisting all the hyperbole about 700/800MHz, P25, etc. and performing their job. Best partial solution to some issues if they're in a hurry for a partial solution would be for them to hurry up & phase in the multi-band portable radios & use them for vehicular repeater & INTEROPERABILITY with other LEAs in their area of responsibility. Otherwise, hold-off on those too until the SATCOM capability is phased in.

 

[gmclam]

Hooligan I totally agree with you

The current system -- the VHF low-band mainstay, ... still seems to work OK! A hodgepodge, perhaps, but it still works.

Not only does it work OK, I don't think another system could do better with the same infrastructure. They *might* be able to improve on how the extenders work, but I'd be willing to bet a new solution will breed new problems.

People have been saying that the VHF low-band gear isn't really supported any more. Well, with an agency the size of CHP ..., it seems like a company could make a decent profit by making/marketing VHF low-band gear for the state, let alone the other states & countries still using VHF low band.

If a company does not want to sell us low band equipment (without bloat), then I say we take our business elsewhere.

I expect most vendors are pushing the 700/800 stuff & playing up the INTEROPERABILITY buzzword, and with INTEROPERABILITY being the latest craze, if you want funding, you have to demonstrate how your fancy new system is going to be INTEROPERABLE.

The most interoperable radios are when they all operate on a single simplex channel. Anything added to this, like trunking, makes them LESS interoperable. Apparently most officials who make contracts for new radio systems don't have the backbone to state this to the salespeople.

Now certainly if you need a new system, VHF low-band isn't the way they should go.

Unless you are an agency that needs radio coverage of hundreds of miles and terrain from the lowest to the highest in the continental USA (OK so they don't need coverage on the top of Mt. Whitney, but they do at Death Valley).

 

[jimvm]

Midland Radio delivers CHP base stations

MissionCritical Communications, Radio Resource International, and Public Safety Report - wireless voice and data communications for mobile, remote and public safety operations

Any feedback from the state Techs?

jim vm

 

[WayneH]

MissionCritical Communications, Radio Resource International, and Public Safety Report - wireless voice and data communications for mobile, remote and public safety operations

Any feedback from the state Techs?

For P25 or just the use of Midland? The Midland low-band repeaters are what the State has been installing for all the new 44MHz sites and retrofitting some old 42MHz.


Example:

 

[SCPD]

Maybe instead of a state-wide system, each CHP division does what works in their division -- think regional systems? How often does a Southern unit need to go to Inland and talk?

There is more of that than many might realize. Recall all the I-5 pursuits that are initiated in the Southern Division and sometimes travel to Bakersfield or even Fresno. I seem to recall some that began in Orange County and went north on I-5 into the Central Valley. How about mutual aid situations such as the 92 Rodney King court decision riots?

Sometimes extra units are brought into a specific location on a highway for special enforcement. It has been a long time in Mono County since fixed wings have been brought in to work sections of highways that require outside area officers, but it was more common in the 80's and 90's.

If an officer needs to travel around to different parts of the state for these types of situations would a disparate radio system work? Sometimes vehicles are loaned from area to area, often involving different divisions.

Mutual aid between state university campuses and for large incidents probably don't occur all that often, allowing them to get away with disparate radio systems. I have worked quite a major incidents (mostly wildland fire) in California and have never heard of a State University officer included in the checked-in resources. Of course, if a major incident occurred near a State University campus, I'm sure this would be different.

It would seem that the CHP needs to be standardized all over the state. They often need to have a second radio depending on the area they are used in, example the regional system in San Diego and Imperial Counties. The cited UHF systems as well. In the least developed rural counties VHF is king so a VHF radio can be added similar to what most State Parks vehicles have. The VHF extender allowed officers to interact with federal and local units in Mono/Inyo Counties without having to add a mobile in the CHP vehicle. With 700 MHz handhelds the officers won't be able to communicate on foot with federal and local agencies. That is dangerous.

Of course, large incident caches are available at the state and federal levels for mutual aid when disparate radio systems are involved. The problem is that the beginning stages of a large incident where depending on the mobiles in a vehicle and handhelds a person has with them is absolutely essential. Even if the radio cache is delivered immediately, something I've never heard of, it is extremely difficult to deliver them into the field. This is something normally done at the ICP at the end or beginning of a shift. On a wildland fire incident this is usually not a problem as wildland agencies normally have VHF High capability at all times. But law enforcement has far more vehicles and officers than the fire service has. Read expensive here!

It would be great if multiple band radios of a commercial grade could be manufactured similar to the amateur radios that exist, some covering 28-30, 50-54, 144-148, and 420-450 in one radio. Trunking, however, complicates the picture.

It would seem that there aren't any solutions in the immediate future.

 

[cousinkix1953]

Mutual aid between state university campuses and for large incidents probably don't occur all that often, allowing them to get away with disparate radio systems. I have worked quite a major incidents (mostly wildland fire) in California and have never heard of a State University officer included in the checked-in resources. Of course, if a major incident occurred near a State University campus, I'm sure this would be different.

All of those UC campuses are using the five main frequencies in that Mototola TRS. The larger ones have added extra frequencies. The police use the 00080 TG statewide. Reinforcements are called in; when the Regents have their regular meetings on a certain campus. The police force grows for the time being. Standby for student demonstration time.

The CSU's aren't as organized. Some use VHF and others are on UHF channels

It would seem that the CHP needs to be standardized all over the state. They often need to have a second radio depending on the area they are used in, example the regional system in San Diego and Imperial Counties. The cited UHF systems as well. In the least developed rural counties VHF is king so a VHF radio can be added similar to what most State Parks vehicles have. The VHF extender allowed officers to interact with federal and local units in Mono/Inyo Counties without having to add a mobile in the CHP vehicle. With 700 MHz handhelds the officers won't be able to communicate on foot with federal and local agencies. That is dangerous.

That's why everybody had the "blue" channels in their radios in the old days. Now-a-days it's used to cover special events like the recent Amgen Tour of California. More recently, I've heard CHP units chase speeders into the next county and just go directly to their primary channels.

They were looking for robbery suspects in one state park. The rangers were using 800 mhz conventional repeaters, the nearby college was on a Mototola TRS. Local police and sheriff's deputies were using their own inter-agency red channel on VHF. And the CHP was down on 42 mhz. There was lots of traffic being rerouted through the dispatchers and almost no direct communications except by cellular phones. Dangerous or not; it's a pain in the butt.

It would be great if multiple band radios of a commercial grade could be manufactured similar to the amateur radios that exist, some covering 28-30, 50-54, 144-148, and 420-450 in one radio. Trunking, however, complicates the picture.

It would seem that there aren't any solutions in the immediate future.

The CAL-STAR air ambulances might be as close as this idea gets right now. I've heard them come up on all kinds of local fire and ambulance frequencies not to mention CHP blue and marine channel 16 over the years. I heard discussions of other agency's frequencies and PLs on the radio. It sounds like they fly with a copy of that Government Radio Systems book published in the San Francisco Bay Area...

 

[code3cowboy]

Haha. I offered to get one of our Spectras on loan for one of the wardens we work with on a regular basis (hoping I might be able to get a TK-790 on loan in return). He didn't want it - didn't want to get saddled down with outside agency calls. The logic evaded me (just don't go), but that's just me.


To reiterate, this is exactly what my understanding of the situation is, not what CousinKix said. While DFG Wardens may contact outside agency dispatchers for specific incidents, they still have their own dispatch center that they actually are dispatched through.

HA, nice try. The wardens I hang with are all EMTs and old SAR guys who like to jump calls.

Wardens are primarily dispatched by the shrill ring of their Nextel, just like you said.

 

[SCPD]

Wardens are primarily dispatched by the shrill ring of their Nextel, just like you said.

That may be what has happened to DFG warden traffic here in the eastern Sierra. I've heard little on 151.430 in years. All the traffic is non-law enforcement staff or wardens brought in out of area for special events such as fishing season opener or deer season opener.

 

[Krmit]

Keep your eyes out for more use of systems like these.

Raytheon Company: ACU-1000

I attended a demo and it is possible to connect radios from multiple agencies. Each using their own system for comms. Makes interoperability interoperable...

I know of at least one agency in So Cal with this capability available now.

 

[cousinkix1953]

That may be what has happened to DFG warden traffic here in the eastern Sierra. I've heard little on 151.430 in years. All the traffic is non-law enforcement staff or wardens brought in out of area for special events such as fishing season opener or deer season opener.

I still hear plenty of traffic on 151.415. The dispatcher is located in the San Jose area. We have our problems with mountain lions attacking pets and livestock. Commuters have killed two lions on Highway 17 since the first of the year and a third was found dead on Highway 9 around Ben Lomond.

The wardens have a lot of fishermen to watch around here. Illegal aliens are using illegal nets to catch steelhead and salmon in creeks and rivers according to the head warden. Deer season is just a few months away. Hunters will checked for lead free bullets in the "Condor Zone" in the Los Padres National Forest too...

 

[ScannerDude244]

I still hear plenty of traffic on 151.415. The dispatcher is located in the San Jose area. We have our problems with mountain lions attacking pets and livestock. Commuters have killed two lions on Highway 17 since the first of the year and a third was found dead on Highway 9 around Ben Lomond.

The wardens have a lot of fishermen to watch around here. Illegal aliens are using illegal nets to catch steelhead and salmon in creeks and rivers according to the head warden. Deer season is just a few months away. Hunters will checked for lead free bullets in the "Condor Zone" in the Los Padres National Forest too...

DFG has a dispatch center in San Jose? 151.415 is still rocking with a lot of traffic. I do a lot of fishing down in lake san antonio, lake Nacimiento. And few months ago I ran into some wardens that were in training at lake Nacimiento and they had p25 xts motorolas.

 

[code3cowboy]

Keep your eyes out for more use of systems like these.

Raytheon Company: ACU-1000

I attended a demo and it is possible to connect radios from multiple agencies. Each using their own system for comms. Makes interoperability interoperable...

I know of at least one agency in So Cal with this capability available now.

Santa Barbara county has 3, Ventura county has at least one.

 

[code3cowboy]

I still hear plenty of traffic on 151.415. The dispatcher is located in the San Jose area. We have our problems with mountain lions attacking pets and livestock. Commuters have killed two lions on Highway 17 since the first of the year and a third was found dead on Highway 9 around Ben Lomond.

The dispatchers are in Monterey and Rancho Cordova.

 

[ScannerDude244]

I know that I'm just saying cousinkix1953 said dispatcher in the San Jose area. I thought they might have new dispatch for the south bay.

 

[code3cowboy]

I know that I'm just saying cousinkix1953 said dispatcher in the San Jose area. I thought they might have new dispatch for the south bay.

Ill read through my email and memos

 

[cousinkix1953]

DFG has a dispatch center in San Jose? 151.415 is still rocking with a lot of traffic. I do a lot of fishing down in lake san antonio, lake Nacimiento. And few months ago I ran into some wardens that were in training at lake Nacimiento and they had p25 xts motorolas.

I hear analog stuff on the main VHF frequency.

The rangers over at Pinnaccles Monument are using P-25 radios.

 

[code3cowboy]

I hear analog stuff on the main VHF frequency.

The rangers over at Pinnaccles Monument are using P-25 radios.

They are USNPS, we are talking CA DFG.

 

[ScannerDude244]

I hear analog stuff on the main VHF frequency.

The rangers over at Pinnaccles Monument are using P-25 radios.

I'm saying they are carrying p25 radios that doesn't mean it's full p25 digital....

Pinnacles is using a mix mode of analog/p25.

 

[code3cowboy]

I'm saying they are carrying p25 radios that doesn't mean it's full p25 digital....

Pinnacles is using a mix mode of analog/p25.

The XTS5000 is NOT a P25 radio unless it is flashed for it I was with an agency that handed out XTS5000s flashed with H35 and 3 channels programmed into them.