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Win96 config for San Mateo System

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#1
The reference page on this site shows the following settings for San Mateo
County trunked system:
Base = 482.0000 / 488.000
Offset = 12.5 / 12.5
Spacing = 380 / 560

So I understand the concept of multiple base and offsets. My confusion
is understanding how to program this into Win96. On the 'Channel' page,
there are three boxes in the upper right hand corner:
Base Frequency / Offset / Step Size

...clear enough... Now the secod range appears to be programmable
via the 'Extended Tables' button. It brings up a table that has the
following columns:
CH Lo / CH Hi / Base Frequency / Offset / Step

There are six entries possible in the table, I didn't want to mess with the
first five, because it looked like 'valid' data. So here's my guess:
Ch Lo = 380
Ch Hi = 759
Base = 488.000
Offset = 560
Step = 12.5

Is this right? Thanks!
 

DonS

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#2
b52hbuff said:
The reference page on this site shows the following settings for San Mateo
County trunked system:
Base = 482.0000 / 488.000
Offset = 12.5 / 12.5
Spacing = 380 / 560

So I understand the concept of multiple base and offsets. My confusion
is understanding how to program this into Win96. On the 'Channel' page,
there are three boxes in the upper right hand corner:
Base Frequency / Offset / Step Size

...clear enough... Now the secod range appears to be programmable
via the 'Extended Tables' button. It brings up a table that has the
following columns:
CH Lo / CH Hi / Base Frequency / Offset / Step

There are six entries possible in the table, I didn't want to mess with the
first five, because it looked like 'valid' data. So here's my guess:
Ch Lo = 380
Ch Hi = 759
Base = 488.000
Offset = 560
Step = 12.5

Is this right? Thanks!
No. You need to make two entries. It doesn't matter if you overwrite the "default" data - you're not using it anyway.

Take a look at the recent Marin County post. The settings for San Mateo will be nearly identical.

-Don
 
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#3
DonS said:
No. You need to make two entries. It doesn't matter if you overwrite the "default" data - you're not using it anyway.

Take a look at the recent Marin County post. The settings for San Mateo will be nearly identical.



...(from linked post)...
Also, you'll need to check the "Use these entries for 3600 bps systems" box.


-Don
Thanks. I did that and have one more question. In your linked post, you say to check the "Use these ...3600..."

However I'm confused by two sets of radio buttons that are immediately above the 'Extended Tables'. They say 'MOT 3600 CC' and 'MOT 9600 CC'. Both share settings for 'Normal' and 'Custom Table'.

These radio buttons appear redundant with the checkbox? If I check the
box saying 'Use these for 3600...', then why the need for the radio button??

Thanks again.
 

DonS

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#4
b52hbuff said:
...(from linked post)...
Also, you'll need to check the "Use these entries for 3600 bps systems" box.

Thanks. I did that and have one more question. In your linked post, you say to check the "Use these ...3600..."

These radio buttons appear redundant with the checkbox? If I check the
box saying 'Use these for 3600...', then why the need for the radio button??
They're not redundant. The check boxes override any settings made with the radio buttons, and must be checked when using the "Extended Tables" option (known as Multi-table in the radio).

-Don
 
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#5
DonS said:
They're not redundant. The check boxes override any settings made with the radio buttons, and must be checked when using the "Extended Tables" option (known as Multi-table in the radio).

-Don
Ah, I get it now... There are really four places the radio gets the channel
to frequency mappings:
Normal (e.g. default)
Splinter
Custom Table (e.g. single Base+Offset) in upper right hand corner
(also used for a 'single range' system)
Extended Tables.

So instead of implementing this as a 3-way radio button and a pair
of check boxes, why not do away with the custom table and just
provide the Extended Tables?

Anyway, thanks for helping to clear this up for me...
 

WayneH

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#6
b52hbuff said:
So instead of implementing this as a 3-way radio button and a pair
of check boxes, why not do away with the custom table and just
provide the Extended Tables?
Each button references a setting you would do if manually configuring the scanner. There's a specific FUNC=# to set 3600 or 9600, and there's the other one (FUNC-3) to choose the standard freq assignments, a single range V/UHF system, and a multi-range V/UHF system. Three settings, three buttons.

Don could make it completely idiot proof but we know how that saying about idiot proofing goes....

-Wayne
 
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#7
wayne_h said:
b52hbuff said:
So instead of implementing this as a 3-way radio button and a pair
of check boxes, why not do away with the custom table and just
provide the Extended Tables?
Each button references a setting you would do if manually configuring the scanner. There's a specific FUNC=# to set 3600 or 9600, and there's the other one (FUNC-3) to choose the standard freq assignments, a single range V/UHF system, and a multi-range V/UHF system. Three settings, three buttons.
The PRO-96 automagically detects/selects 3600 vs. 9600. I guess you're referring to the FUNC-3 /FUNC-4 keypresses that let you set the "control channel modes" for the two rates. You'd first select one of those, then up/down arrow to the correct "mode": Normal, Splinter, Table, or Multi Table for 3600, or Normal, Table, or Multi Table for 9600.

Don could make it completely idiot proof but we know how that saying about idiot proofing goes....
Would that be the one about the new rev on the idiot?

I've been asked before to idiot-proof the Custom table data - a user wanted me to "grey out" those fields unless the user selected a "Custom" radio button. I suppose the same argument could be made for the Extended Tables button, if I added a new "Multi" radio button to the 3600/9600 groups and removed the checkboxes in the ET dialog. A big problem with this idiot-proofing is: the CT fields or ET button would be enabled as soon as the user selects one of the 4 available radio buttons (2 each in 3600 and 9600); if the system was 3600 with a custom table, and the user selected the "Custom" item in the 9600 group, they'd still be able to enter the Custom base/offset/step info, even though it wouldn't be used unless they selected the "Custom" item in the 3600 group. This is because there is only one set each of Custom and Multi table data per bank, independent of CC data rate, but the radio has CC rate-dependent controls. So the potential confusion is still there, negating my "idiot-proofing".
 
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#8
I wouldn't advocate idiot proffing the program until you get all of the
feature requests in. :)

I'm still learning, but I am very impressed to date with your ability to
add functionality to the radio via software.
 

WayneH

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#9
DonS said:
The PRO-96 automagically detects/selects 3600 vs. 9600. I guess you're referring to the FUNC-3 /FUNC-4 keypresses that let you set the "control channel modes" for the two rates. You'd first select one of those, then up/down arrow to the correct "mode": Normal, Splinter, Table, or Multi Table for 3600, or Normal, Table, or Multi Table for 9600.
Eh, so why not make the button on the extended table menu an 'either X or Y' option? I can't see why you would want them both checked. Possibly making it default to 3600 would help for the n00bs. ;)

-Wayne
 
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#10
wayne_h said:
DonS said:
The PRO-96 automagically detects/selects 3600 vs. 9600. I guess you're referring to the FUNC-3 /FUNC-4 keypresses that let you set the "control channel modes" for the two rates. You'd first select one of those, then up/down arrow to the correct "mode": Normal, Splinter, Table, or Multi Table for 3600, or Normal, Table, or Multi Table for 9600.
Eh, so why not make the button on the extended table menu an 'either X or Y' option? I can't see why you would want them both checked. Possibly making it default to 3600 would help for the n00bs. ;)
You might want them both checked if you had two trunked systems, a 3600 and a 9600, both of which used the ET info, entered into the same bank. As long as they use different channel ranges, and there are 6 or fewer entries total, it's a valid configuration. Such a configuration might be used if someone travelled between two such systems, never "hearing" them both at the same time. (Or, someone might use the two-conventional-channel-separation trick described on the Yahoo lists, monitoring both systems in the same bank at the same time).

About the only idiot-proofing I can think of here is to remove those two check boxes altogether, then add "Multi" options to each of the two radio button groups on the Channels tab. The (existing) "Custom" options would enable the base/offset/step fields, while the (new) "Multi" options would enable the "Extended Tables" button.

The only problem with the above is that someone could be on a 9600 system, but could select the "Multi" option for 3600 (or vice-versa). The ET button would be enabled, allowing them to enter data, but that data wouldn't be used on their system. The same problem would exist for the "Custom" option.

-Don
 
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#11
New Win96...

I added some of the "idiot-proofing" I described above. The new version is available in the usual place (see sig).

The Revision History ("What's New" link at the top of the Win96 page) describes the changes.
 
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#12
DonS said:
Take a look at the recent Marin County post. The settings for San Mateo will be nearly identical.

-Don
Ok, I looked there and saw:
In Win96's "Extended Tables" box, the Marin County system's table info would likely be entered as follows:
Code:

CH Lo CH Hi Base Freq Offset Step
380 569 482.00000 380 12.500
570 759 488.00000 570 12.500


And from your post in yahoo groups!, I see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRO-96/message/2054
> In the Extended Trunking Tables dialog, you'd enter these values
> in two of the grid rows:
>
> CH Lo CH Hi Base Freq Offset Step
> 380 559 482.00000 380 12.5
> 560 939 488.00000 560 12.5

The one part that is unclear to me is how we know how to set the Ch HI in the second line of the table? It didn't seem to be related to the example
values in the help file.
 
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#13
b52hbuff said:
And from your post in yahoo groups!, I see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRO-96/message/2054
> In the Extended Trunking Tables dialog, you'd enter these values
> in two of the grid rows:
>
> CH Lo CH Hi Base Freq Offset Step
> 380 559 482.00000 380 12.5
> 560 939 488.00000 560 12.5

The one part that is unclear to me is how we know how to set the Ch HI in the second line of the table? It didn't seem to be related to the example
values in the help file.
The second line in the Yahoo post should have a CH Hi value of 759 (though, in this case, 939 would work just as well in the PRO-96).
The simple explanation is that the channel values will almost always be from 380 to 759.
 
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#14
DonS said:
The second line in the Yahoo post should have a CH Hi value of 759 (though, in this case, 939 would work just as well in the PRO-96).
The simple explanation is that the channel values will almost always be from 380 to 759.
So if these are 'limiting' values, then the consequence of setting the
number too low is that you'd miss a transmission if it used that channel
number because it would be out of bounds, right?

If so, then what is the consequence of setting the number too high?

btw, thanks for your time...
 
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#15
b52hbuff said:
So if these are 'limiting' values, then the consequence of setting the number too low is that you'd miss a transmission if it used that channel number because it would be out of bounds, right?
Yes, as long as setting one CH Hi too low didn't lead you to then set the next range's CH Lo too low.
If so, then what is the consequence of setting the number too high?
On the PRO-96, there is no effect. In the quoted settings above, there will never be a transmission on channels 760 or higher.

You can look at the system's frequencies to determine the actual channels in use, by plugging them into the formula Freq = BaseFreq + Step x (Channel - Offset) and solving for Channel. You'd have to use the BaseFreq, Offset, and Step values appropriate for the Freq in question.

For example, if we look at the RR database's list of Marin frequencies, we find 482.4250. That will be in the first "range". Plugging it into the formula above, we get: 482.4250 = 482.0000 + 12.5 x (Channel - 380). Channel is 414.
 
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