World of Radio rebroadcast via ham

[ka3jjz]

Under normal conditions, I would be placing this in the SWBC forum, however bear with me for a moment...many of you may be familiar with the World of Radio broadcasts that have been done by Glenn Hauser for 20+ years. A recent posting had this schedule;

0930 UT Wednesday Unique 5045-LSB NSW ND (New South Wales, Australia)
1030 UT Wednesday WRMI 5950 to WNW
2200 UT Wednesday WRMI *9955 to SSE
2200 UT Wednesday WBCQ *7490v to WSW
0100 UT Thursday WRMI 7780 to NE
0930 UT Friday Unique 5045-LSB NSW ND
0729 UT Saturday HLR 6190-CUSB Germany to WSW
1200 UT Saturday Unique 5045-LSB NSW ND [alt weeks: Feb 16]
1230 UT Saturday WRMI *9955 to SSE
1531 UT Saturday HLR 9485-CUSB Germany to WSW
2030vUT Saturday WA0RCR 1860-AM MO non-direxional
2200 UT Saturday WRMI *9955 to SSE
0400vUT Sunday WA0RCR 1860-AM [nominal 0415], ND
0830 UT Sunday WRMI 5850 to NW, 5950 to WNW, 7730 to WNW
1130 UT Sunday HLR 7265-CUSB Germany to WSW
2130 UT Sunday WRMI 7780 to NE
0230 UT Monday WRMI 5950 to WNW, 9395 to NNW
0400vUT Monday WBCQ *5130v Area 51 to WSW
0430 UT Monday WRMI *9955 to SSE
0930 UT Monday Unique 5045-LSB NSW ND
2330 UT Monday WRMI *9955 to SSE
* also webcast; direct linx to these and many others at: WORLD OF RADIO SCHEDULE

Notice the highlighted listings? Yes that is not a typo. It made me do a 'Spock eyebrow' because, at least under the last version of the Rules that I know of, this rebroadcast would be illegal.

It would be interesting to see if locals in that area can hear this 're-broadcast'...Mike

 

[ka3jjz]

Just to fill in the gaps, the World of Radio program covers HF Broadcasting, sometimes including MW and FM/TV DX as well, but no ham related stuff (generally), so we can't classify it under the same exemption as say, rebroadcasting an AMSAT report on the local repeater.

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

A gray area indeed, tho hasn't the ARRL engaged in some form of one way transmissions for a long time ? Certainly they are famous for code practice broadcasts.


Part 97
§ 97.111 Authorized transmissions.
5(b) In addition to one-way transmissions specifically authorized else-where in this part, an amateur station may transmit the following types of one-way communications:
(6) Transmissions necessary to disseminate information bulletins.


So, just what makes up an 'information bulletin ?"

Lots of us like to test the slippery slopes. Maybe this group is doing just that.

ie: Like operating a pulsed radar on a ham band; the rules are so vague that guidance can't be sought from the government.
Oh, believe me I know- (I have C-Band radars) -
I was told, in effect----- "Go ahead, If it becomes a problem we'll be in touch"


Lauri

 

[AK9R]

A gray area indeed, tho hasn't the ARRL engaged in some form of one way transmissions for a long time ?

Yes.

W1AW Operating Schedule

 

[ka3jjz]

But the W1AW bulletins and services are ham-related. One could make the case that since World of Radio doesn't do ham stuff, it could be classified as rebroadcasting from another service (in this case, a broadcast service - which it definitely is), which is not legal. AFAIK

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

No arguments there guys....

This seems to me to be a murky area that this World of Radio has decided they will test. I have never listen'd to one of their broadcasts, but if they so much as mention the words 'ham radio' I can see it opening up a field day for the attorneys. Its just the times we live in.

Bye the bye, I recall a station which used to broadcast quite high quality program on 20 metre's.. a K something MAN(??) was that the call sign(?)
I have no further recollection of him (or them)- what became of the broadcastings etc.,

I will confess I enjoyed listening to them.

Lauri

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

A gray area indeed, tho hasn't the ARRL engaged in some form of one way transmissions for a long time ? Certainly they are famous for code practice broadcasts.


Part 97
§ 97.111 Authorized transmissions.
5(b) In addition to one-way transmissions specifically authorized else-where in this part, an amateur station may transmit the following types of one-way communications:
(6) Transmissions necessary to disseminate information bulletins.


So, just what makes up an 'information bulletin ?"

Lots of us like to test the slippery slopes. Maybe this group is doing just that.

ie: Like operating a pulsed radar on a ham band; the rules are so vague that guidance can't be sought from the government.
Oh, believe me I know- (I have C-Band radars) -
I was told, in effect----- "Go ahead, If it becomes a problem we'll be in touch"


Lauri

By its nature, your C band radar transmissions are "two way" - on the bounce back! And actually, there is "information" on the return!

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

No arguments there guys....

This seems to me to be a murky area that this World of Radio has decided they will test. I have never listen'd to one of their broadcasts, but if they so much as mention the words 'ham radio' I can see it opening up a field day for the attorneys. Its just the times we live in.

Bye the bye, I recall a station which used to broadcast quite high quality program on 20 metre's.. a K something MAN(??) was that the call sign(?)
I have no further recollection of him (or them)- what became of the broadcastings etc.,

I will confess I enjoyed listening to them.

Lauri

K1MAN SK QRT

Glenn Baxter, ex-K1MAN, SK; Engaged in Protracted Enforcement Battle with FCC

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

Ah ! K1MAN... I was close .


That was an interesting article on Glenn Baxter; by the ARRL of all groups. He was not one of their fans.

As I said, I don't recall hardly any of the details, but I do remember listening to his broadcasts. They were informative, well produced programs that I found entertaining.
Obviously he was a burr under some influential (aka 'powerful') people's saddle blankets. He was accused of malicious interference and fined for it. The FCC regulations are quite specific about this indiscretion, and rightly so--

§97.101 General standards.
(b) No frequency will be assigned for the exclusive use of any station.
d) No amateur operator shall willfully or maliciously interfere with or cause interference to any radio communication or signal.


Yet the ARRL sets out a table of frequencies and broadcast time schedules- schedules that in so many words, establish's their rights and claims to those frequencies.
Ever been operating on those ARRL channels when their big guns open up on frequency ?

Okay, I am not an apologist for Glenn Baxter, but isn't there something of a double standard here?
"What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander"............ or maybe not

I just rewatch'd the movie The Conspirator- * about the kangaroo court proceedings and a government bent on destroying Mary Surratt * - accused in the assassination of President Lincoln. She was a dead woman from the moment of her arrest- proving that if the powerful want to get you- they will.

If K1MAN had done his broadcasts on 14.345 MHz probably no one would have given a hoot.
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______________________________________________
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Smiling- my radars have been an enigma as far as the FCC has been concerned. I wanted clarification on their legal operation, and went to the source-- but anyone looking at the regulations will see they are practically devoid of anythting other than "pulse" is allow in the C-Band.
I have jokingly said they are two way communication, for as RFI points out, when they echo-return there is a two-way circuit. When they don't, I am just calling a Verrrrry long CQ.

An Engineer-in-Charge once said to me when I was on one of my inquisitive rants--

"Lauri, have you ever thought of taking up stamp collecting instead?"

Lauri

________________________________________________

* https://www.biography.com/people/mary-surratt-9499375
.
The Conspirator - 123moviesfree
.
.
.

 

[VK3RX]

By its nature, your C band radar transmissions are "two way" - on the bounce back! And actually, there is "information" on the return!

Is an identifying callsign transmitted at the beginning and end of transmissions?

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Is an identifying callsign transmitted at the beginning and end of transmissions?

No, but the distance, direction of travel, the velocity and the approximate radar cross section are returned with the pulse. Perhaps even more can be gleaned from the return pulse.

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

"Is an identifying callsign transmitted at the beginning and end of transmissions? "


I wish it were so simple. Instead I use a 56-bit Differential Phase Shift Keying (DPSK) data block, similar to a Mode-S interrogation, to embed an ID into the stream.

Oh my, this is really straying far afield from the original topic, No ?
Sorry guys--

..... Let me just leave it there; that the FCC has written no provisions for ham radio pulse identification.

Lauri

 

[AK9R]

He was accused of malicious interference and fined for it.

I believe you are correct that the FCC actions against K1MAN had more to do with interference with on-going communications than with "broadcasting".

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

Hmmmmm--

Last nite I spent some time looking at Glenn Baxter's colour'd past- and like I said, I am no apologist for him. He definitely came off as a few ounces short of a quart when it comes to emotional- but then on the other hand, he did produce entertaining broadcasts.

What brought him to mind was, odorous as he may have been to many (I have no opinion)- was this apparent broadcasting idea unveil'd by World of Radio for 160 metre's.
Its ham radio broadcasting, and as such as it has been explored, its a murky subject at best. When a screwball does it, rightly or wrong, they are pilloried. If it is done by organizations like the ARRL, its exhaulted (tho I have another word for it when then they have blasted me off a frequency for a 'regularly scheduled broadcast.').

I'm limiting this to only the broadcasting aspect- crazy on-air behavior and ignoring the FCC is another matter.
What elicited my comments flies from a higher plane- that is- is all this 'broadcasting' in the best interest of ham radio ? Back 'in the day' before the internet, things like on-air code practice and ham news were legitimate reason (at least in my view) for 'broadcasting.' But is that still a valid use of spectrum space ? Everyone that has a clue uses the 'Net for all things Ham...
In my way of thinking, this whole broadcasting thingy needs addressing. Maybe if it has to be on-air, do it digitally... which for me makes far more sense- did you all know music (!) is permitted in this mode ?- add something video and think of the programming potentials there * .
On the other hand, a warbly digital steam doesn't carry the same big ego boost as a + kilowatt AM, SSB signal bandblast'r.

Lauri

___________________________________________________________________

* And, yes, I am aware of bandwidth restrictions and such. But hey !- this is an experimental radio service underneath it all, clever minds will make that work.

 

[quad_track]

Instead I use a 56-bit data block

I don't think you really need all those 56 bits... I've rarely seen a callsign covering the whole ASCII table. Although that might require even more work, especially to standardize the thing, aka. herding the cats.
But. That does allow you to send a null character mid-callsign and break somebody's parser, I suppose.

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

Smile Quad

Yes, there is that more work aspect- 56 is a DPSK standard-- but then too, I can also slip a few little extra's in that stream besides a callsign....

Lauri

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Hmmmmm--
(snip) Maybe if it has to be on-air, do it digitally... which for me makes far more sense- did you all know music (!) is permitted in this mode ?- add something video and think of the programming potentials there * .
(snip)

Lauri

___________________________________________________________________

* And, yes, I am aware of bandwidth restrictions and such. But hey !- this is an experimental radio service underneath it all, clever minds will make that work.

HF Amateur stations worldwide, could compose music using MIDI and entire ensembles mixed digitally. Maybe David Byrne could be persuaded to write something, he is always looking for new ways to deliver music.

It could be a whole new avenue for the hobby!

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

I thought I was on to something too.... but looking more closely at this, I fear the bandwidth would be too broad to be acceptable for anything below UHF.

oh well......

Lauri