First Tower, DIY install, Question..Do's and Dont's

[osros]

Hey All

I'm planning on a shack build away from the house using a section of a barn I will build a room inside for radio shack. This area gives me max options for Antennas, towers and as far away from electric lines as possible.

I like to put up a Rohn 25G as my first tower up 30'. Now it looks simple enough 3 pcs, hinged base plate, and I'm thinking of the house brace. Questions, I like to service the antennas, add or whatever from time to time. I was hoping I can with the hinged base walk the tower down do what I need to do then walk the tower back upright by hand, is this doable will it be too heavy for one person? This is my main need 30' but also allow for one person servicing such as adding, moving antennas etc.

Also installation of the base plate to ground/concrete is unknown to me is there some instruction manual or link to site that explains step by step on install of 25G to a clueless person.

Any other Do's and Dont's?

Any help appreciated.

 

[osros]

Just looking at some videos looks like a wench to raise and lower maybe the way to go but they where taller towers, still like to know if a 30' can be walked up and down. There are fold down towers I just found as well, interesting. Still no clue on the ground install part..

 

[prcguy]

I raised 60ft of Rohn 25 tower by myself and it was no problem. The tower sections are not very hevy and I did use a Gin Pole made from a 10ft mast, two antenna mounts and a pulley. I also have a tool with a sherp pointed end for jamming in the bolt holes to line them up before inserting the leg bolts. Without that it can be frustrating to push the bolts in. You will also need an appropriate climbing belt or harness.
prcguy

 

[WA0CBW]

Using a Gin Pole to assemble a tower and walking up a 30 ft fold over tower are not the same. You will not be able to walk up a 30 ft tower with antennas.
BB

 

[K7MEM]

I agree with WA0CBW. Once there is something on the end, walking up a tower is not easy.

I have a situation similar to OSROS. My shack is in the barn, but mine is there because there wasn't any other place to go. I have a 35 foot Rhon 25 "type" of tower behind the barn. It is quite light in that, assembled on the ground, I can pick the whole thing up. But don't let that go to your head. It is not so light when your trying to push it up.

For my tower, I built a hinged base out of very large fence hinges. Then I dug a hole about 2' x 2' x 3' and mounted the bottom section of the tower over the hole. The base extended into the hole about 2 feet. Then I filled it with concrete and let it set for about 2 weeks. To raise it, I used the electric winch on my quad, but I had to brace the quad so that the force from the tower didn't drag it away. The tower is installed at the edge of the barn roof eave. So I added a angle iron brace from the tower to the roof. This extra bracing meant that I didn't need any other guy attachments. And it has had no problems with 50 MPH winds to date.

To bring it down is simple. I just attach the line from the winch, tie and secure a rope in the other direction, release the roof brace, disconnect one of the tower legs, and lower it down. The whole process takes about 15 minutes. The extra rope is to keep it from trying to descend in the wrong direction. You need to do it slowly because the end tends to bounce around.

All of that was done by myself. The initial installation and raising took a while. If you do it by yourself, do it slowly and think about your every move. I will be worth it in the end.

Ten or fifteen years ago I put up a 50 foot crank-up by myself. The tower weighed 350 pounds, required a much bigger hole, and took a bit longer to get up. It worked great for many years, but I opted to sell it when I moved because it was too difficult to dig a hole at my new place.

 

[popnokick]

Isn't "walking up the tower" with an antenna installed on the ground dependent on the size, weight, and wind load of the antenna you install on the ground? I've worked on walk-ups that had only a single vertical element (VHF) dipole, but no way would I attempt to walk up an HF tribander. That's where the gin pole comes in (and may be what prcguy is referring to). You walk up the tower "empty" (no antenna), then use the gin pole at the top to hoist the heavy antenna. Once it's at the top you climb the tower and finish the mount.... with help from people on the ground taking the weight of the antenna off of you at the top by pulling on the hoist. Your job is to guide the antenna onto the mount at the top... not to lift it.

 

[osros]

Thanks all, I am understanding now the process from here and videos sometimesyou need a visual to see how something is a PITA. I finally saw the base tower going into a box and such 2 or 3 feet down in prep for the cement. Not sure I can pull this off at this time at least the shack is in the planning stages so got time to think on it.

For scanner and SWL use I prob can get away with a 30' telescoping mast I only plan to have 2-3 light weight Ant up there. The reason for the Tower was to have it all done now one shot and be ready for HAM gear later on, plus tower looks cool

Anyone know how good that "stick in the ground " base plate is? If it can be use on a 30'? That and a brace to the barn may serve my needs I don't ever plan on climbing a Tower the main requirement is raising and lowering by one person. So with a hinged base I will build the tower on the ground and raise it, lower it as needed.

 

[osros]

Isn't "walking up the tower" with an antenna installed on the ground dependent on the size, weight, and wind load of the antenna you install on the ground? I've worked on walk-ups that had only a single vertical element (VHF) dipole, but no way would I attempt to walk up an HF tribander. That's where the gin pole comes in (and may be what prcguy is referring to). You walk up the tower "empty" (no antenna), then use the gin pole at the top to hoist the heavy antenna. Once it's at the top you climb the tower and finish the mount.... with help from people on the ground taking the weight of the antenna off of you at the top by pulling on the hoist. Your job is to guide the antenna onto the mount at the top... not to lift it.

Thanks popnokick, my needs now are just Vertical and Discone Ants lightweight stuff for scanning and SWL just 2 or 3 I think I wanna leave tower climbing to the experience folks. I do want the tower though may seem like overkill waste now but later on the HAM stuff will go on.

I maybe thinking this wrong and just need to do what I need for my current application and as my needs change address the Tower and Ant then. I am open to ideas and suggestions.

 

[SCPD]

Up on the roof

Depending on the pitch of the roof, how comfortable would you be working off a ladder on the roof of the barn?
If I read it right, you're mounting the tower to the side of the barn.
My first thought is, with a ladder on the roof, you can get to the top of the tower..
Get some angle iron and u-bolt it to the side of the tower to use as a sturdy top end support for the ladder.
(A great source of cheap angle iron is a bed frame for a thrift store.)

Another thought is forgo the tower all together if the barn is high and steep.
Put a tripod up on the very top for the antennas you want to put up once and forget.
And get a few 20' fence top rail, mount them on the side of the barn for antennas you want to swap out more often.

 

[K7MEM]

Isn't "walking up the tower" with an antenna installed on the ground dependent on the size, weight, and wind load of the antenna you install on the ground? I've worked on walk-ups that had only a single vertical element (VHF) dipole, but no way would I attempt to walk up an HF tribander. That's where the gin pole comes in (and may be what prcguy is referring to). You walk up the tower "empty" (no antenna), then use the gin pole at the top to hoist the heavy antenna. Once it's at the top you climb the tower and finish the mount.... with help from people on the ground taking the weight of the antenna off of you at the top by pulling on the hoist. Your job is to guide the antenna onto the mount at the top... not to lift it.

Everything you say is correct, but the OP asked whether he could do this by himself. I was responding to that. Having a few people handy would be great and make everything much easier.

OSROS,

Towers generally come with very complete installation information. My 50' crank-up came with a complete set of drawings and engineering specifications. Some areas require the engineering specs before they will allow you to install anything. The base for my 50' crank-up was 3' x 3' x 6' deep. And I dug the hole by hand. (Picture summer in Phoenix, AZ) It took 2 yards of cement. You don't want to try filling that kind of hole by the bag.

My 35' tower didn't come with any paper work at all. But I had already been through the process and didn't need anything else. Plus, the tower only cost $50 at a ham fest.

 

[osros]

Thanks all, the more I look into this the more Im shying away from a tower at this time. too much work for little gain for my needs at the start. I will look into some sort of telescoping mast at 20 - 30' something I can work with for now. The tower can come later when I plan to go HAM.

May still consider it but not going to let it hold me up. I am interested in that stick in the ground base plate offered by Rohn though, if I have no plans to climb on the tower does it really need to be cemented in the ground? I realize that is best for stablity and all but they make a stick in the ground base for a reason will need to learn more.

Wyandotte,

The barn is not very high just a ground level barn no upper level, I can use the barn for sure to help support any tower or mast but there will be no getting on top of the barn with a ladder. There are options though just need to think on it. I can take pics if you guys want to give me ideas see what I got to work with.

 

[n5ims]

With the tower right next to the barn, it should be quite easy to mount a winch in the barn with the cable through a protected opening (similar to a hay opening, but much smaller) so to raise and lower the tower you can simply go inside the barn and attach the winch cable to the tower. Pretty easy to raise and lower the tower, regardless of how heavy it becomes (so long as you don't exceed the winch's rating). Lowering the tower would require a rope (or something) tied off to the tower where it enters the barn and pulled from the ground until gravity takes over and the winch cable controls "the fall".

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Rohn makes a base plate that you just drive in the ground. It's got a 3ft stake on the bottom end. One thing I learned from taking down building supported towers, the bracket needs to be mounted to the top of the tallest section to the roof. If it's mounted to the base of the next section up the tower will rock and wallow out the holes where the bolts connect the sections together over time.

 

[osros]

Thanks,

At this point the scary part is the base/cement install not impossible just alot of work I think for what I will use it for. The stick in the ground base looks like a better deal for me and if the day should come I will need to do a proper base/cement install for heavier antennas I can deal with it then. Still thinking on it.

The brace will be as high as possible but dont think it will be as high as the the top section would prob be in the middle of the middle section at ssomwhere at 10 to 12 feet thats a guess.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Thanks,

The brace will be as high as possible but dont think it will be as high as the the top section would prob be in the middle of the middle section at ssomwhere at 10 to 12 feet thats a guess.

Will probably introduce some rocking with weight on it.

 

[doublescan]

Tower build

Osros I would seriously look at the 30' telescoping poles that are available. I have two of them, using for OTA tv antennas, mounted them at the end of the house (single story). For lightweight antennas like you want, they are very usable, and durable. If you're not scared to get on the roof of your barn, you can unlock those poles at each joint and just slide the top down to work on your antennas. Or to swap them out. My older one has developed some rust after about 15yrs, so it isn't as easy to "telescope" as it once was, but the 5yr old one still slides up and down easily. I have one with a 12' UHF tv ant on it, with a groundplane scanner antenna on top of that.
I just put up a 30' tower, alone, using ropes, a pulley and my S10 truck. It is amazingly easy once you study all the angles involved. But I do not wish to repeat that process for at least a couple of years, lol.

 

[osros]

Yeah I'm thinking the telescoping pole will suit my needs for now, I will think on the tower later on after the room and poles are a success, up and running. Unless I build some sort of platform on or next to the barn near the antenna, there is no option to get on the roof of the barn.

I just started on the foundation floor for the room of the barn, my father in law god bless him is like in his 80s and still kicking and working he is the major reason for the build I can not do this without him I'm no builder, Hes building I'm helping and this man uses screws for everything never nails. When he builds or adds on to something the rest of the structure will fail before anything he has built does. He can also be a rigger at times so I need to keep an eye on him

I started the first set of photos on the build and will post here I guess so you guys can see what Im working with.

 

[prcguy]

Since your going to use a house bracket the concrete part should not be that bad. I suspect a simple pad maybe 2' X 2" X 1' deep would be fine for 30ft of tower and you could also drive a steel pipe into the ground a few feet and within the pad area so it helps offset any side to side forces at the base.

You just need to dig a hole about a foot deep, top it with a simple form made of 2 X 4s and dump in some concrete and wipe it flush with the form.

Here is a pic of my current and heavily loaded 35ft of Rohn 25 with a 20ft horizontal section of Rohn 25 mounted about 15ft up, see post #22. Its anchored to a concrete deck with the basic flat steel mount and a home made house bracket made from a 3' high X 4' wide 1/4" thick steel plate with a top and bottom spacer made of heavy 2" X 8" U channel welded to the plate. The plate is bolted to the house with 1/2" all thread that goes through some 2 X 6s inside that sandwich the wall. http://forums.radioreference.com/pi...798-antenna-pictures-anyone-2.html#post353437
prcguy

Thanks,

At this point the scary part is the base/cement install not impossible just alot of work I think for what I will use it for. The stick in the ground base looks like a better deal for me and if the day should come I will need to do a proper base/cement install for heavier antennas I can deal with it then. Still thinking on it.

The brace will be as high as possible but dont think it will be as high as the the top section would prob be in the middle of the middle section at ssomwhere at 10 to 12 feet thats a guess.

 

[osros]

Since your going to use a house bracket the concrete part should not be that bad. I suspect a simple pad maybe 2' X 2" X 1' deep would be fine for 30ft of tower and you could also drive a steel pipe into the ground a few feet and within the pad area so it helps offset any side to side forces at the base.

You just need to dig a hole about a foot deep, top it with a simple form made of 2 X 4s and dump in some concrete and wipe it flush with the form.

Here is a pic of my current and heavily loaded 35ft of Rohn 25 with a 20ft horizontal section of Rohn 25 mounted about 15ft up, see post #22. Its anchored to a concrete deck with the basic flat steel mount and a home made house bracket made from a 3' high X 4' wide 1/4" thick steel plate with a top and bottom spacer made of heavy 2" X 8" U channel welded to the plate. The plate is bolted to the house with 1/2" all thread that goes through some 2 X 6s inside that sandwich the wall. http://forums.radioreference.com/pi...798-antenna-pictures-anyone-2.html#post353437
prcguy

Thanks very interesting, When I first thought of the tower I thought I could get away with such a setup and I thought I saw base option that was just three or so short base poles you can stick in the cement. I then saw all the videos mainly doing the massive hole and cement setup for climbable and larger towers which kind of turned me off thinking that was the only right way to do it.

However with all the ideas here and reviewing Rohn hardware I'm now starting to see that those where just one base option, things are starting to click now and I'm viewing the Rohn hardware and now seeing the other base options there starting to make sense, now not so scary. My options have grown greatly.

I wonder if I can get the instructions for some of those base options to review before I buy, I will contact Rohn. I'm just wondering on those base bolts in cement.

My current plan is for the 1' hole, wood square to keep bolts lined up and straight, fill with cement and dry I should be left with a cement block with 6 threaded bolts sticking up then place the hinged base plate on the bolts and bolt it on to cement. I hope that is correct.

 

[prcguy]

If you think about it, all the weight of the tower is resting on the concrete base but its not really that much. Any side to side forces on the tower will be somewhat split between the house bracket and the base and the farther apart they are minimizes the leverage on them. You just need the base to keep the bottom of the tower from moving sideways or sinking. Its not the same as a free standing tower where the concrete base is holding the entire tower up.

My guess is a 2 X 2 X 1ft deep base is overkill for your size tower but If Rohn has a recommended size concrete base, by all means use that. You can also assemble the bolts on the tower base (preferably J bolts), stick that in the wet concrete and let the whole thing cure.

If this were a free standing tower then you would use mfrs drawings or have it engineered for your soil type and not take suggestions from a forum!
prcguy

Thanks very interesting, When I first thought of the tower I thought I could get away with such a setup and I thought I saw base option that was just three or so short base poles you can stick in the cement. I then saw all the videos mainly doing the massive hole and cement setup for climbable and larger towers which kind of turned me off thinking that was the only right way to do it.

However with all the ideas here and reviewing Rohn hardware I'm now starting to see that those where just one base option, things are starting to click now and I'm viewing the Rohn hardware and now seeing the other base options there starting to make sense, now not so scary. My options have grown greatly.

I wonder if I can get the instructions for some of those base options to review before I buy, I will contact Rohn. I'm just wondering on those base bolts in cement.

My current plan is for the 1' hole, wood square to keep bolts lined up and straight, fill with cement and dry I should be left with a cement block with 6 threaded bolts sticking up then place the hinged base plate on the bolts and bolt it on to cement. I hope that is correct.