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Trunking Control Channel Decoding For discussion of installation, setup, configuration, and use of the Trunker / Unitrunker digital decoding utilities (for decoding Trunking control channels)

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-20-2011, 11:50 PM
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Default Constant radio rejection?

Trunker88 continuously reports a radio is rejected. What could this be? I've uploaded a screen shot. Unitrunker doesn't really say much about this, If anything.
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Old 09-21-2011, 5:35 AM
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Trunker 88 is simply reporting what the controller is doing. There doesn't seem to be any errors be reported.
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Old 09-21-2011, 6:49 AM
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If this is the system:

RadioReference.com - Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference Database

Something is wrong, those TG's are wrong, there has to be a setting off somewhere.
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Old 09-21-2011, 7:08 AM
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Did you ever think that this radio trying to get access to the system is not authorized on the system?

There are a number of people trying to use a commercial radio to monitor a trunking system. They don't understand the issues they create in doing this. My guess is we are seeing the actual results of someone trying to monitor the trunking system with a radio they programmed up in the effort of using it as a scanner.

As much as there are threads on many of the chat groups, people still insist on trying to program up these trunking radios they have acquired off of Ebay and other places. They constantly get told not to do this. This is a bad move and as you can see, it causes the trunking system to send un needed messages and causes the overhead traffic of the system to go up. It delays the assignment of regular traffic and could cause the system to miss an emergency request under the right conditions.
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Old 09-21-2011, 7:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim202 View Post
Did you ever think that this radio trying to get access to the system is not authorized on the system?

There are a number of people trying to use a commercial radio to monitor a trunking system. They don't understand the issues they create in doing this. My guess is we are seeing the actual results of someone trying to monitor the trunking system with a radio they programmed up in the effort of using it as a scanner.

As much as there are threads on many of the chat groups, people still insist on trying to program up these trunking radios they have acquired off of Ebay and other places. They constantly get told not to do this. This is a bad move and as you can see, it causes the trunking system to send un needed messages and causes the overhead traffic of the system to go up. It delays the assignment of regular traffic and could cause the system to miss an emergency request under the right conditions.
It's more then one radio, and divide those TG's by 16, does it come out even? I think he has the system type set wrong, but then what do I know.
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Old 09-21-2011, 8:32 AM
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While I will admit there are some folks around here who play with radios way too much, mostly the radios are bricked when they try to access that system. That said, I agree with Highpockets, there is something wrong in the setup. Just looking at the frequencies being reported there is something wrong. The site (zone in trunk88 parlance) has at least one frequency from another site and one that isn't on the system at all. And as Highpockets correctly points out, the TGs are all invalid.
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Old 09-21-2011, 12:07 PM
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I know the TGs aren't right. I haven't really set it up yet. Just playing with it. Thought I'd share what I've found. However the frequencies are right.
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Old 09-21-2011, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruiseomatic View Post
I know the TGs aren't right. I haven't really set it up yet. Just playing with it. Thought I'd share what I've found. However the frequencies are right.
Well if you say the freq's are right, then the database is wrong. Also, you asked for ideas on why radios are being rejected. You didn't mention that you didn't set it up yet and are just playing with it. Bottom line, there are problems.
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Old 09-21-2011, 7:43 PM
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It is quite possible that the radios are trying to affiliate with talkgroups that they are not allowed to affiliate with on the site in question. Some system operators do this to manage the amount of traffic on a site within a multi-site system.

If the talkgroups are invalid, then it is a good possibility that templates loaded into those radios were set up incorrectly.
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Old 09-21-2011, 8:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGiTaLD View Post
It is quite possible that the radios are trying to affiliate with talkgroups that they are not allowed to affiliate with on the site in question. Some system operators do this to manage the amount of traffic on a site within a multi-site system.

If the talkgroups are invalid, then it is a good possibility that templates loaded into those radios were set up incorrectly.
This will be my last comment on this, I believe there is a setting in the program that is wrong, like:

Wrong System Type
Bandplan
Talkgroup Display Format

To the OP, good luck with the program.
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Old 09-21-2011, 8:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGiTaLD View Post
It is quite possible that the radios are trying to affiliate with talkgroups that they are not allowed to affiliate with on the site in question. Some system operators do this to manage the amount of traffic on a site within a multi-site system.
Or radio ID. There's a reject announcement for either but it depends on how the database is setup to. I know I've seen three different types of rejects related to ID or TG. I'm not sure what Trunk88's verbiage for the different ones.

And geez, people are so quick to jump on the illegitimate radio rant. In this case those are normal, legit rejects. There is another reject that gives off a good indicator of an incorrectly programmed or illegal radio. Even though the radio receives the reject on affiliation, and can't roam, it keeps affiliating.
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Last edited by WayneH; 09-21-2011 at 8:27 PM..
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Old 09-21-2011, 9:50 PM
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I don't think there's anything wrong with Trunk88's display of the talkgroup. It's a different format than some may expect. If you're used to seeing the 16 bit talkgroup ID, multiply the displayed group number by 16.
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Old 10-17-2011, 10:00 PM
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I see these on my local system all the time. Aside from the Trunk88 configuration issue, the message is simply stating that the system does not want a radio affiliating with a given site. As was said before, it's likely set up that way to manage the load on a particular site.
Trunk88 gives a whole different message if it's an "illegal" radio.
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Old 10-19-2011, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loumaag View Post
I agree with Highpockets, there is something wrong in the setup.
I see nothing wrong with the setup.


Quote:
Just looking at the frequencies being reported there is something wrong. The site (zone in trunk88 parlance) has at least one frequency from another site and one that isn't on the system at all.
If any of the frequencies are incorrect, it would be due to the user bouncing between sites without giving TRUNK88 a chance to snag the site IDs.


Quote:
And as Highpockets correctly points out, the TGs are all invalid.
They are all perfectly valid. Motorola Type II talkgroups range from 1 to about 4000. If anything, those silly five digit scanner talkgroups are invalid, however TRUNK88 will display in that format if told to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Highpockets View Post
This will be my last comment on this, I believe there is a setting in the program that is wrong, like:

Wrong System Type
Bandplan
Talkgroup Display Format
System Type should be 2. Bandplan looks fine. Talkgroup display format is up to the OP.


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Originally Posted by WayneH View Post
Or radio ID. There's a reject announcement for either but it depends on how the database is setup to. I know I've seen three different types of rejects related to ID or TG. I'm not sure what Trunk88's verbiage for the different ones.
In the OP's screen shot, TRUNK88 is reporting 2C4A site access denials.


Quote:
And geez, people are so quick to jump on the illegitimate radio rant. In this case those are normal, legit rejects. There is another reject that gives off a good indicator of an incorrectly programmed or illegal radio. Even though the radio receives the reject on affiliation, and can't roam, it keeps affiliating.
100% correct. The level of misinformation in this short thread is off the chart.
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Old 10-24-2011, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slicerwizard View Post
In the OP's screen shot, TRUNK88 is reporting 2C4A site access denials.
I have that as the affiliated TG is not permitted at that site.
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Old 10-25-2011, 1:41 PM
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In terms that most could understand - this means that that particular radio isn't allowed to roam onto site 28. This happens quite often here on our Provincial SmartZone system. It doesn't mean it is a hacker or a cloned radio at all.
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Old 10-25-2011, 2:27 PM
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I would it is not the radio that is the reason for rejection but the talkgroup the radio is on. That same radio on a systemwide talkgroup would probably be allowed. That is by far the most common rejection message I have ever seen.
When I monitor the 4 Zones nearest my home, I often see a radio get the Site Access Denied message. Within a few seconds I will see it affiliated on a neighboring Zone but on a Talkgroup that is not permitted on the first Zone.

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Old 12-02-2011, 10:25 AM
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depending on the way the system is program a radio may be denied under the following conditions.

Individual Only: The radio is rejected if the individual radio user does not have access to the site.
Talkgroup Only: The radio is rejected if its current selected talkgroup does not have access to the site.
Both: The radio is rejected if neither the talkgroup nor the radio has access to the site.
Either: The radio is rejected if either the talkgroup or the radio does not haven access to the site.
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