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Trunking Forum General News and Information regarding trunked radio communications. This is the place to post general items related to trunked radio and technologies unrelated to the other forums. Location specific posts should be directed to the regional forums listed below.

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Old 07-29-2009, 12:35 PM
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Default number of talkgroups and frequencies

Hello. This may have already been asked, so sorry if it is a repost. In the county I live in, we have Motorola Type II SmartLink (P25). BTW: this post is only about our central dispatch for fire, police and EMS. There are approximately 80 frequencies and over 100 talkgroups (not all are always in use). Of the 80 frequencies, only about 19 of them are control channels. What is the point of having more talkgroups than frequencies. I don't understand the system 100% yet, so I'm still learning how it works, but I don't understand this. For example: if you had a this type of radio system with 5 frequencies and 10 talkgroups, would you be able to transmit on every talkgroup at the same time? Thanks.
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:49 PM
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In the olden days, frequencies were assigned for every "talkgroup" (no need for trunking). The whole point of trunking is so that 10000s of people (talkgroups) can all have their own "channel" without the need for that many frequencies.

The number of frequencies needed for a trunked system would equal the number of talkgroups that are to be transmitting simultaneously, plus one. For more info on trunking, read here: Trunked Radio Systems - The RadioReference Wiki
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Old 07-30-2009, 11:46 AM
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So if I had a system with 10 frequencies and 50 talkgroups, I would only be able to use a maximum of 9 talkgroups simultaneously? What would happen if another another tried to transmit?
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Old 07-30-2009, 11:58 AM
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They would get a beep-beep when they tried to key up (busy signal). Trunking is based on mathematical models of radio user behavior. As an example, for small groups of radio users you can apply a 5-5-90 rule: Any particular radio user transmits 5% of the time, receives 5% of the time, and is idle 90% of the time. In a one-freq per group scenario, you are wasting 90% of your radio frequency asset. Of course for major metro dispatch channels, their ratios are higher, but still not at 100%. Trunking is a way to maximize the benefits of your radio frequency assets.

In a well-designed trunked system, busy signals are fairly rare. In the event of a widespread disaster, certain users are given a higher priority on the system, so they can essentially "kick off" other users of lower priority.

By the way, this system has been used for phone systems for many decades. While our building has 300-400 extensions, we probably only have 20 incoming lines. That works because it is very rare for more than 20 people to be involved in an outside phone call at any one time. (Our call center is on a seperate system where the ration of extensions to trunked lines is closer to 1:1.) The same hold true for every "exchange" in the phone network. There are many more local lines coming into an exchange than there are trunked lines going out.
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Old 07-30-2009, 03:55 PM
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Ok. Thanks. Now it makes sense.
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Old 07-30-2009, 04:26 PM
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On EDACS when a user tries to key up and gets that "ERRRR" sound that means the system is over loaded right or the tower hasn't cycled through to the radio id? What if noone else is broadcasting? I hear it all the time on a local system.

John
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Old 07-30-2009, 04:37 PM
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Motorola, when describing trunking in their manuals, has said that the technology can stay efficient because a majority of the conversations are only a few seconds long.

I guess they never saw usage from Bus Drivers or Public Works on a system. Generally Motorola is correct though.
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:42 AM
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Haha. I completely agree. Or when it's like 3:00 in the morning and a chief, or really anyone else, tries to give a report and the message is just, "........uhhhhh..........report....report....repor t......uhhhh.....we're available......" They usually take a while. But I can't complain, because I'm one of them. Can't really function at 3 in the morning.
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