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Trunking Forum For general discussion of trunked radio technologies that do not fit in to the other respective C&P forums or cross-over more than one. Please post scanner programming questions to their manufacturer's specific forum.

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Old 12-12-2012, 9:33 PM
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Red face Motorola Trunking versus APCO25 Trunking ?

Motorola Trunking versus APCO25 Trunking ?
Hello ... I've been studying up a bit ... but still have a question ...
Is there a difference between Motorola (Trunking "Family" such as Smartnet, Omnizone, etc.)
and APCO25 Trunking ... (I understand that APCO25 can be digital / "digital stream / samples" voice),
I am asking specifically about the Trunking portion of the system ...
Does APCO25 Trunking have a different protocol and control structure ...
(I ask for example because I have "Triple Trunking" and Control Channel Only scanner ...
but it's not APCO25 so I'm wondering if it would understand the Trunking control / commands
of APCO25 system / net ... but I don't think it would matter / don't think it would produce a
good result , since the voice stream / voice content would be digitized anyway and this scanner
wouldn't be able to deal with the digital voice stream anyway ...
Just curious about Motorola vs APCO25 Trunking itself ... (not the voice stream) ...
So in other words is APCO25 Trunking a different "System Type" than Motorola "Family" of Trunking ?

Please respond to / including E-Mail: vicmiller1@aol.com
Many Thanks,
Victor L. Miller
E-Mail: vicmiller1@aol.com
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Old 12-12-2012, 9:59 PM
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Yes to your last question. Traditional Motorola trunking was designed as a proprietary product line and only sold by them. They used a 3600 baud control channel with a proprietary data protocol structure and supported both analog voice and VSELP or IMBE digital voice. APCO25 Trunking on the other hand has little to no differences other than employing the same style of trunking. The data rate is different, the data protocol structure is totally different (plus most of it is open source) and the trunking standard is available from more than Motorola.

APCO25 Trunking is going to use digital voice so therefore in order to understand an APCO25 Trunking system the scanner must decode digital voice (i.e., they go hand in hand).

Why not tell us specifically which scanner you're asking about so we can tell you exactly?
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:07 PM
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As Wayne said, the fundamental protocols are very different between Motorola and P25 trunked systems. Motorola control channel is 3600 baud vs 9600 baud for a P25 control channel. No "Triple Trunking" scanner can decode or follow a 9600 baud P25 control channel. They are analog, non-digital scanners that can only follow Motorola, EDACS and LTR systems, and furthermore they cannot process any digital voice such as P25 over a Motorola system.

Last edited by Chauffeur6; 12-12-2012 at 10:09 PM..
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:57 AM
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Red face Follow-Up : Yes Understood - APCO25 Trunking different than Motorola Family Trunking

Follow-Up : Yes Understood - APCO25 Trunking different than Motorola Family Trunking ...
I understand - clearly different and standard Triple Trunking scanner will Not support
APCO25 trunking operation ... All OK ...
By the way the classic "triple trunking" scanner(s) I am referencing are
Radioshack PRO-164 hand-held and PRO-163 base (I think they basically are the same / very similar
functionally) and neither will support APCO25 both in the trunking / control channel as well as the
digital voice stream ...
I also have two BCD996XT - new never upacked ... which should do the APCO25 job .....
Just never got to it ... I've been in radio for a lifetime (electrical engineer by trade), but never
have the time ... I'm now checking in to the scanner scene again ... last time was about 2 or 3 years ago
when bought all these units ... the units above will do the NJ State Police system - that's Motorola family / analog ... now I see that Bergen county police went APCO25 and the most preferred talk groups are all encrypted ... So that's it / done ... no content / no hear ... it seems like that makes a final "end" to that pursuit ...
I was reading that APCO25 seems to not be having as much traction as may have been initially envisioned ... Difficulties in fielded results have caused some "push-back" on it ... . Yes ? ...
Some have said the long term end-state will be 4GLTE type solution ... which is basically Voice over IP (VOIP) / VOIP-like ... maybe (?) ...
Also I see that on radio reference there is live audio / feeds and I've checked it out ... for the same Bergen County (that I've mentioned that is APCO25 with Encrypt), there are feeds labeled Bergen Police and Fire ... but I assume there is no "magic" and that those feeds have no special access to the Encrypt stuff ... Yes ? ... so it seems that once Encrypt is in play it's a "dead-end" for the scanner enthusiast for that content ... not so nice ...do I have this right ?
Many Thanks for Your Help
Victor L. Miller (Electrical Engineer) - Northern NJ
E-Mail: vicmiller1@aol.com
Website: The Victor & Kim Home Page
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:17 PM
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APCO 25 is digital. It can be conventional or trunking; clear or encrypted. Motorola sells APCO 25 equipment in both conventional or trunking versions. It is more commonly call P25 trunking. P25 is the accepted standard for interoperability. Motorola no longer offers analog system trunking equipment

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