RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > Scanners and Receivers Forums > Uniden Forums

Uniden Forums Forums for the discussion of all Uniden scanning radios and receivers.

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #61 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2013, 10:47 AM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 529
Default 396XT vs 996XT

Quote:
Originally Posted by ofd8001 View Post
Well, just for the heck of it, I connected the 396XT to the antenna that the 996XT was connected to (the exterior vehicle antenna). Then I connected the 996XT to an extra mobile antenna I had, with a magnetic base and stuck it inside the vehicle. The 396XT still sounded much better on the local simulcast system. So I'm doubting this to be an antenna issue.

Still stumped on why the 396XT firmware update sounds better than the 996XT firmware does.

You might try loading the program that is in the 396XT into to the 996XT (backup your 996XT program first with something like FreeScan) to see if makes a difference. Some people claim they had to reprogram their scanners after a firmware update.

Make for sure that the 396XT program that you load into the 996XT is really the one that is working now. I usually make changes directly in my HP-1 so when I do the weekly database update my Favorite’s List often does not agree with what is in the HP-1.

N0UDG
Sponsored links
  #62 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2013, 2:13 PM
scanningisfun's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Andover, Kansas
Posts: 634
Default

The St. Louis area in general is a great place if you want to listen to P25! St. Clair County has a lot of traffic (Nonstop really).

Jacob
  #63 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2013, 7:09 PM
nick1427d's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 333
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scanningisfun View Post
The St. Louis area in general is a great place if you want to listen to P25! St. Clair County has a lot of traffic (Nonstop really).

Jacob
True story
__________________
Nick
  #64 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2013, 7:47 PM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 2,285
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by N0UDG View Post
You might try loading the program that is in the 396XT into to the 996XT (backup your 996XT program first with something like FreeScan) to see if makes a difference. Some people claim they had to reprogram their scanners after a firmware update.

Make for sure that the 396XT program that you load into the 996XT is really the one that is working now. I usually make changes directly in my HP-1 so when I do the weekly database update my Favorite’s List often does not agree with what is in the HP-1.

N0UDG
I'm almost tempted to do a factory re-set, then do another exercise of re-loading the 996XT firmware, then doing as suggested - reloading the same files as used in the 396XT that I know work, into the 996XT.

Might be some wheel-spinning, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Fortunately I'm using ARCXT and my 996XT and 396XT files mirror each other. The 996XT in mounted in my fire department vehicle. I have a laptop used as a mobile data terminal and it has the ARC software on it. So programming the scanner is pretty convenient.

I might be looking for zebras when I'm hearing hoof beats but I thought I'd throw this out. The simulcast system I'm really wanting the 996XT to monitor is the same one as the mobile radio in that fire vehicle. (Antennas are well separated to avoid blowouts). That's so I can keep up with other agencies.

Because the 996XT is a mobile scanner sharing the same power supply and grounding (as in the car battery) as the regular two way radio, could their be some kind of alien gremlins going on? (Bear in mind, that the 396XT was in the same vehicle for the side by side comparison).

This might be weird and crazy, but weird and crazy things going on are pretty much a "usual day at the office" for me as a fire chief and the hoof beats I hear sometimes end up being zebras.

Last edited by ofd8001; 01-30-2013 at 7:57 PM..
  #65 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2013, 7:57 AM
Sybex7254's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Morris Co. NJ | Waikoloa, HI
Posts: 377
Default

I really think the issues lies with the firmware update itself. My local P25 system is now using LSM and if I hold on the control channel if does decode the TG's which I can confirm are correct with my HP-1 running side by side.

This was the exact same issue that existed with this system on both my BCD396XT and HP-1 prior to applying the latest fireware that address LSM for each radio.

I live less than two miles from the antenna for this simulcast system and am getting full 5 bar signal strength but am not hearing any audio. I have quadrouple checked the systems settings in Freescan and am 200% certain it is programmed correctly.

I do not believe the latest fireware for the BCD996XT properly fixes the LSM issue and it still needs to be re-addressed by Uniden.
__________________
BCD536HP | BCD436HP | BCD996XT | BC-RH96 | HP-1 |
Sponsored links
        
  #66 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2013, 10:06 AM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: St. Louis County, MO
Posts: 1,716
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sybex7254 View Post
I really think the issues lies with the firmware update itself. My local P25 system is now using LSM and if I hold on the control channel if does decode the TG's which I can confirm are correct with my HP-1 running side by side.

This was the exact same issue that existed with this system on both my BCD396XT and HP-1 prior to applying the latest fireware that address LSM for each radio.

I live less than two miles from the antenna for this simulcast system and am getting full 5 bar signal strength but am not hearing any audio. I have quadrouple checked the systems settings in Freescan and am 200% certain it is programmed correctly.

I do not believe the latest fireware for the BCD996XT properly fixes the LSM issue and it still needs to be re-addressed by Uniden.
If Uniden would just enable the "Manual" P25 adjust mode as found in the older T models, I think many would find near perfect reception of the simulcast sites. I know my T models all walk circles around the XT models when I have the T models set to Manual and adjust the P25 thresholds manually per site.
  #67 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:07 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,231
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kruser View Post
If Uniden would just enable the "Manual" P25 adjust mode as found in the older T models, I think many would find near perfect reception of the simulcast sites. I know my T models all walk circles around the XT models when I have the T models set to Manual and adjust the P25 thresholds manually per site.
The P25 Adjust Mode and P25 Adjust Level settings were enabled in the XT models a year ago via a firmware update (1.10.00 for the 396XT and 1.06.00 for the 996XT).

Regardless, the latest firmware updates specifically address Linear Simulcast Modulation (LSM), which not all simulcasted systems use. It's not accurate to suggest that playing with the Mode and Level adjustments will cure all the woes from LSM. If that were true, then the issue would've been addressed last year, and Uniden wouldn't have released subsequent firmware this month that specifically dealt with LSM even after enabling the P25 Adjust settings in the XT models.
  #68 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:30 AM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 2,285
Default

I've done several things and my issue persists. The firmware update for the 396XT made a HUGE improvement on receiving my local simulcast system. There wasn't any improvement with the 996XT firmware update.

I did a factory reset of the 996XT and then re-loaded the firmware update. I copied the system file from the 396XT that works very well and pasted it into the 996XT.

Sitting side by side, the 396 is very clear but the 996 is either real garbled or not at all. I've tried a multitude of P25 Adjust Mode/Level combinations to no avail.

So I'm really stumped on why the 396 firmware worked so well, but not for the 996.
  #69 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:34 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,231
Default

Disregard...I didn't see your other posts....
Sponsored links
  #70 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:36 AM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: St. Louis County, MO
Posts: 1,716
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chauffeur6 View Post
The P25 Adjust Mode and P25 Adjust Level settings were enabled in the XT models a year ago via a firmware update (1.10.00 for the 396XT and 1.06.00 for the 996XT).

Regardless, the latest firmware updates specifically address Linear Simulcast Modulation (LSM), which not all simulcasted systems use. It's not accurate to suggest that playing with the Mode and Level adjustments will cure all the woes from LSM. If that were true, then the issue would've been addressed last year, and Uniden wouldn't have released subsequent firmware this month that specifically dealt with LSM even after enabling the P25 Adjust settings in the XT models.
I disagree, while Uniden did offer some change of the settings, it is nothing even close to what is available in the older T models.
In the T models, you had a true manual mode that could be set "per site".
The setting they offer now is radio wide which is not worth a darn as not all system are equal. Plus, you cannot adjust the setting below about 6 when my system works best with a manual setting of 5.
On the T models, you could press Function and Volume and then that brings up the P25 screen just like it does on the XT models. The settings cannot be changed on that screen however as they are still running in an automatic mode as indicated by the display. On the T model, if you are in manual P25 adjust mode, the screen indicates manual and you can adjust the mode live while monitoring the system and watching the error rate for improvements. I think you rotate the volume or squelch control and that changes the P25 thresholds on the T models when viewing the decode screen. That is the option I speak of the is NOT available on the XT models.
Read back and you will find many threads that indicate users T models work so much better over the newer XT models. It is the fact that the P25 levels can be adjusted manually "per site" and live while watching the error rate that makes the T models superior in decoding simulcast P25 systems. I do wish your comment were true but it is not, there is no real manual setting in the XT models that is comparable to the T models.
The only P25 settings in the XT models adjust ALL sites in the radio. So if I have a site that works best with a decode level of 6 and a site that works best with a level of 12, I'm screwed and cannot monitor both sites at the same time on an XT model. I can monitor both sites just fine on a T model though, thanks to the per site adjust mode that is available in the older T models.

Last edited by kruser; 01-31-2013 at 11:39 AM..
  #71 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:44 AM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: St. Louis County, MO
Posts: 1,716
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chauffeur6 View Post
Disregard...I didn't see your other posts....
Not sure if this was intended for me but I'd already posted a reply to your other post!
  #72 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:49 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,231
Default

Oops, I meant to leave the quote in the edit...it was for ofd8001, sorry about that.

And yes, you are correct about it being scanner-wide vs per-site. That was pretty half-***ed by Uniden, no doubt.
  #73 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2013, 2:03 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Fremont NE
Posts: 1,046
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chauffeur6 View Post
Oops, I meant to leave the quote in the edit...it was for ofd8001, sorry about that.

And yes, you are correct about it being scanner-wide vs per-site. That was pretty half-***ed by Uniden, no doubt.
That, and the options they give you for delay times. 1, 2, and 5 seconds is just asinine. Something that simple and they wont change it..
__________________
Uniden BCD396XT, BCD396T, BC125AT, BC700A, Radio Shack Pro-83, Motorola HT1000, 4 Motorola JT1000s
  #74 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2013, 2:25 PM
Highpockets's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Toms River, New Jersey
Posts: 3,796
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SquierStrat View Post
That, and the options they give you for delay times. 1, 2, and 5 seconds is just asinine. Something that simple and they wont change it..
I've been asking for Uniden to put back the 3-4 second delay for a long time, I guess I might as well throw the towel in, and take the ten count.
__________________
Steve

  #75 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2013, 4:53 PM
Skypilot007's Avatar
Member
  Shack Photos
Shack photos
Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Medford, NJ
Posts: 1,592
Default

I too have been wondering why Uniden has made these option changes to the XT models. We basically got a downgraded scanner from the T model. Why is it we cannot get these seemingly simple options back in the XT models. It doesn't make any sense at all. It makes about as much sense as using lame audio circuits in use on all these scanners. $450 scanner sounds like a tin can.
Sponsored links
  #76 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2013, 5:22 PM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: St. Louis County, MO
Posts: 1,716
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chauffeur6 View Post
Oops, I meant to leave the quote in the edit...it was for ofd8001, sorry about that.

And yes, you are correct about it being scanner-wide vs per-site. That was pretty half-***ed by Uniden, no doubt.
Quite alright! A lot of people do not realize the difference in the manual adjust modes between the XT and T models. The XT's really only allow you to narrow down the allowed tuning range. No way to really lock it to a specific voltage like can be done with the T's.
I remember UPMan (Paul) saying in a very old thread that they wanted to make the T's more automatic but there was some memory write limitation they were worried about hitting as the auto routine would have caused many writes to some form of eeprom memory that has a limited amount of writes before the cells start failing. So Uniden opted for the manual mode which stopped the auto writes. My guess is that Uniden has used a different type of ram or eeprom in the XT series that stores the P25 settings as it attempts to auto adjust. Something that has a much more generous amount of writes before things start failing. Perhaps the same type memory that is used in today's SSD drives. Those also have a finite amount of writes before cells start failing but it is up there pretty high.
I suppose when that change was made, it may have made it impossible to bring back the true manual settings per site that works so well on the T models. Or, maybe Uniden just likes trying to make the Auto mode work like they had hoped for!
I really wish they would bring back the old T style of manual P25 settings though. I really think it would fix the XT radios if it works like it does in the T models.
I can only hope they will offer that in a future update.
I know the T models did have an Auto setting also like the XT models do but for some reason, that mode did not cause the excessive memory writes so maybe the auto mode info in the T models was written too a different type of ram.
Or the worst case scenario, all of us with T models in Auto mode will find they stop working one day when the ram cells start failing!
The very old RadioShack PRO-2001's used a form ram that did start failing after it was written too to many times. After a while, they woud no longer hold the frequency info you entered. You could only use them on a single channel. Once you hit scan, the info was erased as the memory cells could no longer accept and store writes.
I'd bought a couple of those models off a guy on eBay. The ram was bad in both. I finally found a seller on eBay again that sold the exact ram chips used in those models. It was new old stock. I removed the old chips and installed sockets and then plugged in the new ram chips and they still work to this day! I'd first tried using a similar form of ram but it needed a different method of refreshing the ram so it would not lose it's contents. Another words, it also needed a battery for backup but the refresh timing circuit was different than the stock ram used. I could never get the refresh circuit working with the more modern ram so I was ready to give up on the things but then I ran across the guy that had the original chips unused. They were cheap also. Something like $3 dollars each chip so I bought several.
I still see 2001's today that still store their programming info on the original chips. I assume whomever owned those units did not program them very often so that is why the chips had not failed yet.
I still use both my 2001's to this day as we still have a lot of conventional stuff around here.
  #77 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:46 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 675
Default

When I upgraded my 396xt it made P25 simulcast reception worse. I found that it would not lock on to the control channel unless it got a perfect signal. The dipslay would read NFM instead of the CC freq. So I tried something that has helped a little. Instead of loading all 10 frequencies of the system I only programmed the primary and back up control control channel freqs. It seems to find the control channel better, I assume because it's not trying to sample too many freqs for the right signal. I learned this from a thread about GRE scanners.
Try this and see if it helps. I feel the new update is buggy and while some are finding it works there are too many people with problems.
I also have a 396T and like everybody else has found it decodes much better with a manual setting of 7.
If I'm not mistaken I believe the XT models only have an adjustment range of 8 to 15 so if you set it at 7 or less it behaves as if it's at the default setting of 11 which doesn't work where I am.
I hope Uniden will have an update to the update to fix the problem.
Perhaps if Uniden released a new model with more processing power digital would be better?
Good luck,
BG..
__________________
ButchGone
  #78 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:48 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,326
Default New BCD996XT v1.07.03 Firmware Update Available

Quote:
Originally Posted by ofd8001 View Post
I've done several things and my issue persists. The firmware update for the 396XT made a HUGE improvement on receiving my local simulcast system. There wasn't any improvement with the 996XT firmware update.

I did a factory reset of the 996XT and then re-loaded the firmware update. I copied the system file from the 396XT that works very well and pasted it into the 996XT.

Sitting side by side, the 396 is very clear but the 996 is either real garbled or not at all. I've tried a multitude of P25 Adjust Mode/Level combinations to no avail.

So I'm really stumped on why the 396 firmware worked so well, but not for the 996.
Ofd8001,

When you are comparing the 39XT vs 996XT, what antennas are being used? Is it OEM rubber duck on 396XT and telescoping antenna on 996XT?
  #79 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2013, 9:29 PM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 2,285
Default

I'm using the Radio Shack antenna on the 396XT. The 996XT is mounted as a mobile with an exterior antenna.

As part of the multitude of things I tried, I disconnected the 996XT antenna and connected it to the 396XT. The 396XT sounded quite clear using the mobile exterior antenna. At the same time, I connected a spare antenna (magnetic base) to the 996XT, and the 996XT still sounded horrible with respect to the 396XT.

(I even drove close to one of the transmitters to get a solid signal for tweaking the P25 Adjust Mode/Levels, and worked my way back toward overlapping coverage areas).

One last thing I'm going to try before I throw in the towel, is to listen to this as if it were a conventional system, just to see how it decodes the frequencies. I suspect there won't be much difference however.
  #80 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2013, 12:32 AM
gregsto's Avatar
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 79
Default

Trying to update 996XT firmware. I choose the right scanner and update version. I then click 'autodetect' and the scanner is detected, com port 4. I then click "start to begin the update. The update downloads and then, during the "connecting to scanner" step I get "Updating firmware failed. Scanner doesn't respond." Have made numerous attempt, powering the scanner on/off, holding the L/O & 6 keys as it powers up...always the same issue.

Thoughts? Using Windows 7
__________________
Baltimore City Fire & EMS Feed Provider BC996XT
Youngstown Metro Fire Feed Provider BC346XT
Closed Thread

Tags
sticky

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 9:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2011 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions