Mototrbo and other DMR Systems

[Drkatzjr45]

What is the status (or even possibility) of producing a scanner capable of following
conversation on Moto TRBO and DMR systems. It seems in my state these systems
are growing/expanding --very-- fast.

 

[n5ims]

What is the status (or even possibility) of producing a scanner capable of following
conversation on Moto TRBO and DMR systems. It seems in my state these systems
are growing/expanding --very-- fast.

While I totally agree with you that we want (some would even say need) a scanner that will work on TRBO and DMR systems, don't expect any word on them until just prior to them being released. To do so would put the first company at a competitive disadvantage (read it would tip off the others that they need to fast-track the development of their version so the advantage of being first on the market would be quickly lost). Those that know the answer can not and will not provide answers (hints perhaps if you read their posts very carefully and don't forget their avatar) due to the non-disclosure documents that they work under. Others that do say, most likely don't know and are just expression their wish in a way to sound like they have inside info, which they most likely don't or they'd also be under a similar NDA.

On the plus side, much of the necessary technology is public so it shouldn't be all that hard for them to do so. There are a few points that they'll need to carefully discover, but this is no different than much of the typical technology out there being produced. I suspect that the Chinese may also be working on this so they can produce a compatible radio to market and take the very low price end of the market like they're doing with the various analog radios being sold around the $50 price mark.

 

[miccona]

would love to see this myself

What is the status (or even possibility) of producing a scanner capable of following
conversation on Moto TRBO and DMR systems. It seems in my state these systems
are growing/expanding --very-- fast.

 

[PACNWDude]

I for one would like to see this. MotoTrbo and Hytera radios are being phased in in my area as well. Using USB dongles and software has helped a lot, but many people like the old scanner hardware interface.

An economical software defined radio that could be mobile and didn't cost more than $500 would be a great niche.

In my previous life, using Harris PRC-117's and 152's spoiled me on most commercial radios. Being able to have AM/FM and many other modulations in one radio, that tuned 30-512 MHz was great.

Now make a civilian version that doesn't violate every rule in the book (receive only), and include the archaic analog cellular band that was removed in the mid 90's.

 

[vstream02]

While I totally agree with you that we want (some would even say need) a scanner that will work on TRBO and DMR systems, don't expect any word on them until just prior to them being released. To do so would put the first company at a competitive disadvantage (read it would tip off the others that they need to fast-track the development of their version so the advantage of being first on the market would be quickly lost). .

How many scanner mfrs are left? Uniden and "Whistler?"

 

[MidTNScanDude]

Almost Everything in my county is DMR

 

[torontokris]

Doesnt look promising right now.. I believe only Nxdn is open? (I maybe wrong).

Part of the reason a lot of companies go to these formats is they cant be heard on a scanner

Yes currently only Uniden & Whistler... current RadioShack's are made by Whistler.

What is the status (or even possibility) of producing a scanner capable of following
conversation on Moto TRBO and DMR systems. It seems in my state these systems
are growing/expanding --very-- fast.

 

[Triangulum]

The demand is there waiting to be capitalized on, especially across the pond. There is constant begging and crying for a scanner that works with DMR/TRBO, NXDN in Europe, Australia and elsewhere.

I too wonder why there seems to be a hesitancy in trying to capitalize on the demand.

 

[torontokris]

Just because there is demand, doesnt mean Uniden/Whistler can just make a scanner that decodes those formats.

The scanner makers need to acquire licences.. and if the owner doesnt want to release them there is nothing Uniden/Whistler can do.

In the case of TRBO Motorola can sell it to companies as a sales pitch saying (it cant be heard on any scanner). They just dont tell the buyer it could possibly be heard on DSD or a TRBO radio though =)

The demand is there waiting to be capitalized on, especially across the pond. There is constant begging and crying for a scanner that works with DMR/TRBO, NXDN in Europe, Australia and elsewhere.

I too wonder why there seems to be a hesitancy in trying to capitalize on the demand.

 

[DaveNF2G]

How is the current situation substantially different from the first trunktrackers? Somebody cracked Motorola, EDACS and LTR, then we had them in scanners (in that order). The scanners were more expensive than the conventional-only models, but prices fell and there was no talk of licensing.

What is different about DMR et al? Somebody has cracked them already, so why aren't they showing up in scanners?

I have been asking the same question about LTR-Passport and LTR-Multinet since LTRTrunker came out. I still have to maintain a DOS computer to track those formats.

 

[PACNWDude]

When my previous employer transitioned to MotoTrbo XPR6550 handhelds and XPR4550 mobiles, I was tasked with attacking the system. They wanted to know if it could be listened into. I used another XPR6550 and then a USB dongle, even made the local Motorola salesman a little scared. Especialy when I told him how much the dongle and a better antenna cost. (Maybe $20 or so.)

This company was only licensed for analog mode, but digital was tested, and they also didn't want to spend money on encryption. Considering who it was, I think they should have spent the money on better radios, encryption, and digital licensing.

I'm in another line of work these days, and working more on VoIP phone systems now, and radios as a fall back. My previous employer is still using analog only and encrypted XPR radios.

I am amazed at how much is still analog and in the clear. I have an older Uniden scanner on my desk and am hearing local UHF comms from the state patrol. Drivers license checks, sometimes local vendors asking for price checks on items. Analog is not dead.

 

[torontokris]

As I've said before....

The scanner makers need to acquire licences.. and if the owner doesnt want to release them there is nothing Uniden/Whistler can do.

....

What is different about DMR et al? Somebody has cracked them already, so why aren't they showing up in scanners?

 

[JRayfield]

DMR is an open standard, which means that no one who holds any of the Intellectual Property for that standard can refuse to make it available to others. They can't play 'favorites' either, making it more difficult or more expensive for some companies than others.

John Rayfield, Jr.

As I've said before....

The scanner makers need to acquire licences.. and if the owner doesnt want to release them there is nothing Uniden/Whistler can do.

 

[JRayfield]

DMR does not have to be 'cracked'. It's an Open Standard.

John Rayfield, Jr.

How is the current situation substantially different from the first trunktrackers? Somebody cracked Motorola, EDACS and LTR, then we had them in scanners (in that order). The scanners were more expensive than the conventional-only models, but prices fell and there was no talk of licensing.

What is different about DMR et al? Somebody has cracked them already, so why aren't they showing up in scanners?

I have been asking the same question about LTR-Passport and LTR-Multinet since LTRTrunker came out. I still have to maintain a DOS computer to track those formats.

 

[KG4KHQ]

DMR

In reference to DMR being an open standard. I think I read in one of the trade magazines that even Harris was going to offer a DMR line, so I believe that shows that it's possibly not that much of a licensing issue. The issue would be the particular types of trunking that the major manufacturer offers in their DMR line. One would probably not see a scanner that will do Connect Plus or Capacity Plus trunking but I see conventional DMR not being that much of an issue to overcome unless I'm really missing something.

 

[toastycookies]

as stated above, DMR is an open source standard. Developed by European Telecommunications Standards Institute (ETSI) over a decade ago.

DMR Association | The DMR Standard

There is nothing to crack, no licenses or royalties to be paid.

Hell, even cheap china radio manufacturers have DMR models in their line ups (baofeng, anytone).

The radios are cheap now, and I suppose anyone could shell out around $200 or so if they wanted to get something capable of listening to DMR.

You can use a regular scanner with descriminator tap to decode it along with a computer very easily.

I am most certain that there are not any standalone scanners out there that decode it now because of the AMBE vocoder chip that is needed. I would actually put money down on that is the ONLY reason there is no scanner out there with the capability yet.

 

[torontokris]

And mototrbo???? Is that opensource????

 

[toastycookies]

And mototrbo???? Is that opensource????

What standard is MOTOTRBO based on?

MOTOTRBO is designed to the globally-recognized European Telecommunications Standards Institute (ETSI) Digital Mobile Radio (DMR-Digital Mobile Radio) Tier 2 standard for large organization/enterprise mobile radio. The DMR Association is the body which represents companies and organizations manufacturing DMR equipment, supplying related products and services or supporting the standard in other ways. This provides an open platform that enables market acceptance and multi-vendor interoperability for voice and data and will assure competitive pricing while protecting customer investment.

Motorola is a founding member of the Association and continues to be an active contributor to DMR standards definition and development. As the world’s largest DMR supplier, Motorola is committed to providing its customers with a portfolio of network solutions, infrastructure, terminals, applications and service support.

Frequently Asked Questions | MOTOTRBO

 

[UPMan]

They still use DVSI codecs, which must be licensed. Like APCO P25, it is an open standard, but the standard requires the use of intellectual property that you must gain a license to use.

 

[SOFA_KING]

It is very doable, and IMO should have been done already. Cost of the DVSI license? Nominal, and the demand is there.

But, better include search features for Color Codes and certainly Talkgroups, because that will be needed to find the activity. (That will also expose the hams hiding out on secret groups...hahaha) Don't forget reading text messages, and also include encryption masking with the option to skip encrypted transmissions, as well. Full features right out of the gate. Throw in NXDN and DSTAR while you are at it. And if you can do "Confusion", throw that in too. We want a box that can do it all! NO MORE SPOON FEEDING!