RID Upgrade

[ScannerWayne]

Hello Upman,

I have the 396XT, latest firmware blah blah blah...

I've been using the RID feature for the past month to identify all the radios being used by my local Fire Department. Out of about 250 radios I've gotten 175 confirmed and Alpha tagged. Then I discovered that I can't do anything usefull with that information. Reading over the DOC's I discovered that while the radio does indeed show you the RID's and assign ALPHA tags to them, it won't allow you to set alerts to them.

I then tried to use ARCXT, ProScan, FreeScan and BCTools to accomplish my goals. Nope. None of them work. A little further research showed that the XT is not sending out any data to the software once a RID has been assigned an ALPHA tag.

My goals?

To be able to follow one particular RID. If that radio keys up I want to hear it.

To be able to follow a group of RID's. If any of them key up I want to hear it.

The software I use to be able to record a particular RID or a group of RID's.

Perhaps it's time for a firmware upgrade?

Thanks for listening in any case.

Wayne...

[KE4ZNR]

You can use Trunk88 or Unitrunker to accomplish your goals.
The UID/RID feature is for display purposes only.
Marshall KE4ZNR

[Highpockets]

Originally Posted by KE4ZNR

You can use Trunk88 or Unitrunker to accomplish your goals.
The UID/RID feature is for display purposes only.
Marshall KE4ZNR

How do those programs accomplish his goals?

[scanningisfun]

Oops, I thought you were asking about alpha tagging the channels and I made a whole post on how to do that. My mistake...

[ScannerWayne]

Originally Posted by scanningisfun

Oops, I thought you were asking about alpha tagging the channels and I made a whole post on how to do that. My mistake...

Not a problem <grin>.

I was very disappointed once I found that I couldn't do anything with the RID once I'd Alpha tagged it. What really surprised me though was Uniden not making the data available to software. That was like only getting the coke part of a rum and coke drink <laugh>.

Wayne...

[scanningisfun]

1st Goal) You can make channels for UID's and hold on that channel or you can can just hold on a channel and press "./no" and then the RID. You can also set priority to UID's--I don't know if it will do anything though singe it is not a TGID.

2nd Goal) Make a group for those UID's and put them into channels in that group and scan that group.

3rd Goal) I don't know as I don't use software to record voice.

Hope this helps...tell me if I am misunderstanding of your post.

[ScannerWayne]

Nope, you got it Scanningisfun.

You can do as you suggest as far as putting the RID's into a group/groups. However I want the clarity and orginization that Alpha tagging brings. And my problems stem from the fact that once you assign an Alpha Tag to an RID you lose the ability to do anything else with the data/channel.

Wayne...

[scanningisfun]

Originally Posted by ScannerWayne

Nope, you got it Scanningisfun.

You can do as you suggest as far as putting the RID's into a group/groups. However I want the clarity and orginization that Alpha tagging brings. And my problems stem from the fact that once you assign an Alpha Tag to an RID you lose the ability to do anything else with the data/channel.

Wayne...

So you want the ability to put RID's in an architecture like System/Group/Channel/UID's for that channel. That would be a cool feature and if that will happen in the future, maybe there will be a specific place for UID's in the database besides in the wiki like for Starcom21.

[rbrtklamp2]

Originally Posted by scanningisfun

So you want the ability to put RID's in an architecture like System/Group/Channel/UID's for that channel. That would be a cool feature and if that will happen in the future, maybe there will be a specific place for UID's in the database besides in the wiki like for Starcom21.

Ive recently been logging UIDs for all the northwest central dispatch centers up here the last few months. There are well over a thousand UIDs for these systems considering all the agencies they dispatch for. I would like to see some more memory added for specifically UIDs like there is on the home patrol, but the home patrol doesn't decode UIDs so well. So I tend to use my XT radios over my home patrols But don't have enough room to load all the radio IDs for these systems. If this could be addressed in the XT line of scanners that would be great. If not theres always something new not far off in the distance and we will just have to wait. but if you could up the radio IDs to 500 on the XT line that sure would be a nice feature to have I would gladly give up a little scanning memory if we could get 500 talkgroups and 500 rids per system. But I doubt its even possible with the current hardware.

Bob

[ScannerWayne]

Originally Posted by scanningisfun

So you want the ability to put RID's in an architecture like System/Group/Channel/UID's for that channel. That would be a cool feature and if that will happen in the future, maybe there will be a specific place for UID's in the database besides in the wiki like for Starcom21.

When I first read what you posted I was thinking 'No.. not really.'. But as I re-read it a couple of times and thought about it, I guess that is exactly what I'm asking for.

Scanning for me, and I'm sure there are others out there of like mind, is more than just listening to what's going on. It also includes gathering info so that I can listen to specific departments/groups or people within systems.

As an example, there are several chemical plants near where I live. If something goes wrong at one of them. I would like the ability to listen to specific departments and people at that plant. If I want to isolate security comms and have done the research to ID those radios I would like that ability to monitor specific radios no matter what talkgroup they use. As it is now, sure I can monitor the security talkgroup, but what happens if one of the security units switches over to another talkgroup that I don't have turned on? I may miss out on an important transmission. But If I have that units RID turned on then it wouldn't matter what talkgroup it transmitts on, I'm going to hear it.

As long as another unit isn't talking that is... lol

I know Upman is following this conversation and I hope that the arguments for this feature are making him sit back and say 'hmmmmm.'.

Wayne...

[dw2872]

Is tracking and listening to a particular UID/RID, no matter what TG they may be using, a capability yet? Even if the TG is not programmed into the radio?

[kinfolk]

I've been messing around with RIDs in my 996XT. If I program the RIDs and no talkgroups, I hear nothing. I have to have talkgroups programmed also. I have noticed in logging with ProScan that RID's are not always transmitted to the software by the scanner. That happens maybe only 10% of the time which I don't quite understand. It would be very nice to be able to monitor specific RIDs no matter what talkgroup they switch to.

[KE4ZNR]

Originally Posted by dw2872

Is tracking and listening to a particular UID/RID, no matter what TG they may be using, a capability yet? Even if the TG is not programmed into the radio?

No. As was said earlier the RID/UID feature is for displaying RIDs on a talkgroup
which requires the scanner to have talkgroups programmed into memory.
You cannot "follow" a RID and ignore all other radios and all other talkgroups.
Marshall KE4ZNR

[KE4ZNR]

Originally Posted by kinfolk

I've been messing around with RIDs in my 996XT. If I program the RIDs and no talkgroups, I hear nothing. I have to have talkgroups programmed also. I have noticed in logging with ProScan that RID's are not always transmitted to the software by the scanner. That happens maybe only 10% of the time which I don't quite understand. It would be very nice to be able to monitor specific RIDs no matter what talkgroup they switch to.

That is the nature of RID/UID display. Even my $4000 city issued Motorola XTS 5000 does not display RIDs for every single transmission..from the original 396XT firmware update page (which also applies to the 996XT):

Notes:
--In some cases where you catch a transmission already in progress you will not see the Unit ID.

--In some cases where a second party responds to a transmission before the channel is released, you will not see the second party's Unit ID and will continue to see the first party's Unit ID.

Marshall KE4ZNR

[kinfolk]

Originally Posted by KE4ZNR

That is the nature of RID/UID display. Even my $4000 city issued Motorola XTS 5000 does not display RIDs for every single transmission..from the original 396XT firmware update page (which also applies to the 996XT):



Marshall KE4ZNR

Thanks Marshall, that explains it.

[kinfolk]

In tracking RIDS with the OSP, I have noticed that many units have two RIDs. I am assuming one is for the mobile radio and one is for their portable. Some RIDs sometimes switch to different units. Could this be that the portable radios are not always with the same trooper?

[doctordialtone]

Originally Posted by kinfolk

In tracking RIDS with the OSP, I have noticed that many units have two RIDs. I am assuming one is for the mobile radio and one is for their portable. Some RIDs sometimes switch to different units. Could this be that the portable radios are not always with the same trooper?

I use ID Tracker to do most of what you guys are looking to do. It logs, records, translates UID, Talk Group, System, Control Freq., etc.

I've attached a screen shot of a conversation between CSP Troop H Dispatch and a car - 1028H. The program has its own learning curve, but I keep it up on the PC at all times. You can also re-size the windows for across-the-room viewing. Of course it will take time to develop your own database of UID's, so keep your pencil handy.

By both building your groups creatively and putting individual TGID's in under separate Quick Keys, you can control what conversations you'll follow. In my example - this group is for "Troop H Only".

ID Tracker III - V1.8.1 Released

Edit: @ kinfolk - Yes, mobile and hand held have different ID's so in CT, usually a UID that begins with 1XXXX is a hand held. Notice too how the dispatchers are grouped. This is at the whim of the radio service.

Good luck!

[Gilligan]

I monitor with a GRE PSR-800 but am still interested in this conversation because I like Uniden radios. I am determining RIDs for a huge P25 system in my area. It seems that one reason the RIDs are not always received by the scanner is because they are transmitted on the control channel, not necessarily on the voice channel. Because the radio can only monitor one frequency at a time, it chooses the voice channel to decode the audio for you to hear. Meanwhile, the control channel is spitting out all the RID activity, which is why Unitrunker works so well to show you what's actually taking place on a system in real-time. One thing that may help is to watch Unitrunker in the background while you are monitoring channels on the scanner, and that way you can identify the RIDs easier. Regarding the issue of not being able to use RIDs, I completely understand. I have the capability of monitoring RIDs with alerts with my PSR-800, however the CC/VC handicap I mentioned earlier limits the usefulness of this feature. Case in point: You're listening for a narcotics unit, but the dispatcher makes the first call to the unit. Then all the radios (including your scanner) switch to the voice channel for the brief conversation. During that period, your scanner misses the fact that the unit is transmitting because it only knows the dispatcher RID is on the channel. Until our modern-day scanners feature dual-receivers with real-time CC monitoring, we will never really have fully-functioning RID alerts or RID priority. I don't know how much this all helps, but at least it may put some things in perspective. I'm all for advancing scanner technology.

[dw2872]

Originally Posted by Gilligan

It seems that one reason the RIDs are not always received by the scanner is because they are transmitted on the control channel, not necessarily on the voice channel. Because the radio can only monitor one frequency at a time, it chooses the voice channel to decode the audio for you to hear. Meanwhile, the control channel is spitting out all the RID activity...

I am not trying to contradict anything, but I wonder about that statement because when I watch my 396XT and it shows me a unit transmitting and I hear them talk and the dispatcher steps on them (or talks after they are already talking) I can see the RID change in real time while it is decoding the audio channel. I am wondering if either it can receive on both freqs or the RID data is also sent on the audio freq.

[W8RMH]

Originally Posted by dw2872

I am not trying to contradict anything, but I wonder about that statement because when I watch my 396XT and it shows me a unit transmitting and I hear them talk and the dispatcher steps on them (or talks after they are already talking) I can see the RID change in real time while it is decoding the audio channel. I am wondering if either it can receive on both freqs or the RID data is also sent on the audio freq.

I see these live changes as well on my BCD396XT and my BCT15X.