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The Uniden Tavern - For general chit-chat and non-technical discussion specific to Uniden and does not fall within the above forum topics. This is not the forum to get technical advice from.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2017, 11:20 AM
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Encryption has been around for decades, and yet here we are still able to use scanners. The Chicken Littles have been shrieking hysterically all that time, and are still as wrong as ever.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by allend View Post
Departments go this route to keep scanner listeners out.
No that is not the reason they go that route.

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Old 05-19-2017, 11:29 AM
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It's illegal immigration with bad hombres doing bad crimes.e
Immigration, legal or illegal, has nothing to do with this. Looking for scapegoats does nothing.

Encryption is used because there are cases where it's needed. It isn't about hobbyists, it isn't about immigrants. It's about protecting information that is not intended for public use AND agencies that are concerned that the public might hear something that makes them look bad or may compromise officer safety.
I'm not saying that it's something that should be used in every situation, but expecting encryption to NOT be used because hobbyists want to listen in for entertainment purposes is just silly.

Hobby listeners need to remember that what they are doing is a hobby and for entertainment. Nothing more.

The feds have already spoken out against using encryption on interoperability channels. Most large incidents are going to involve many agencies working together, and that usually requires interoperability channels.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:29 AM
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Encryption of public safety has pretty much been around for roughly 15 to 20 years give or take. Have scanner manufacturers figured it out or made a scanner to de-crypt????????????????????????

NOPE and never will. So my point being is that this is the road block and will always be
No - and they won't - it's illegal.

Even if it weren't, what you are asking for is nearly impossible.

But unless/until EVERYTHING is encrypted - which will never happen, the hobby goes on - with or (most likely) without you.
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Old 05-19-2017, 4:17 PM
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Obviously you are missing the point. We are not talking about encrypting everything. We are discussing public safety as a whole. More and more departments like Law Enforcement nationwide are encrypting at alarming rates. There are a slight amount of fire departments rolling around in the idea and are starting to encrypt "some" of their comms.

This will impact the sales of scanners in general as a whole. People are not going to spend 400-600 bucks and above to receive channels that are not stimulating. DMR and NXDN is not going to cut the mustard long term.
Have you personally taken a poll to find out how much "people" will spend on non-public safety scanning, or are you just taking it upon yourself to speak for the entire population of the hobby? If your only interest is public safety maybe you should have perused a different hobby from the onset.
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Old 05-19-2017, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jonwienke View Post
Encryption has been around for decades, and yet here we are still able to use scanners. The Chicken Littles have been shrieking hysterically all that time, and are still as wrong as ever.
Couldn't agree more.
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Old 05-19-2017, 6:47 PM
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Now the rest of you are missing the main point. Scanner sales are down and won't ever come back. Due to young generations and encryption the market has tanked. It's a proven fact.

If you look at RR.com and database and run a report on encryption you can see it climbing as the days continue. Plus you can also see that Fire Departments are starting to encrypt their comms too.

Interops is crap anyways, it never works right anyways during a major disasters. Even Law Enforcement agencies encrypt their countywide interops too.
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Old 05-19-2017, 8:02 PM
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Now the rest of you are missing the main point. Scanner sales are down and won't ever come back. Due to young generations and encryption the market has tanked. It's a proven fact.

If you look at RR.com and database and run a report on encryption you can see it climbing as the days continue. Plus you can also see that Fire Departments are starting to encrypt their comms too.

Interops is crap anyways, it never works right anyways during a major disasters. Even Law Enforcement agencies encrypt their countywide interops too.
Sweeping generalities in your statement with little to back it up.

I'd like to know where you are getting your numbers that say scanner sales are down.

RR.com database is not an authoritative source.
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Old 05-19-2017, 8:05 PM
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Scanner sales are not down, just watch how fast scanners sell out on amazon! Look at all of the new scanner users joining this site!
And now, its cuz of younger gen???
Interop......hmmm.....ok.....not. See NIFOG

Last edited by vocoder; 05-19-2017 at 8:29 PM..
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Old 05-19-2017, 8:10 PM
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Those problems call all be fixed with PROPER TRAINING. Not very many agencies train on interop it just does not happen. Too many 1st responders want to talk on the radios when there are no need to talk. Your department needs to train the users when and how to use the radios in the agency and the first responders need to stay off the radios and only answer when command calls them. This is all covered in the IC books.
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Old 05-19-2017, 9:13 PM
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This forum has its share of doomsday prophets and those who love to grumble and whine. They would complain even if you hung 'em with a new rope, I'm about used to it.
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Old 05-19-2017, 9:43 PM
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Knowing full well that my local system has encrypted a lot more talkgroups on the new system (all EMS and all police except for main dispatch), I still purchased three new scanners over the past couple of years. Plenty of stuff to listen to.

The FIRST NET system as I understand it will be the "pipeline" between Mobile Data Terminals and the computers for computer aided dispatch (and other records management). Presently responders are using air cards, which is costly and responders could have to compete with other users for "data time".

Anything to reduce costs and improve efficiency is a good thing (long as it is reliable).
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:09 PM
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Dooms day snowflakes
Snowflakes are everywhere
and you can bet it is all the Russians fault .
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ofd8001 View Post
Knowing full well that my local system has encrypted a lot more talkgroups on the new system (all EMS and all police except for main dispatch), I still purchased three new scanners over the past couple of years. Plenty of stuff to listen to.

The FIRST NET system as I understand it will be the "pipeline" between Mobile Data Terminals and the computers for computer aided dispatch (and other records management). Presently responders are using air cards, which is costly and responders could have to compete with other users for "data time".

Anything to reduce costs and improve efficiency is a good thing (long as it is reliable).
One of the most common car-to-base calls I hear is words to the effect of, "Dispatch, is the CAD up? I can't get mine to work." Maybe FirstNet will fix this. I don't know...but I wouldn't put it past AT&T to just bundle the new infrastructure in with what they already have, in which case PS data would still have to compete with private users...if you get the impression that I have a poor opinion of AT&T, you would be correct.

And that is what I understood from the meeting I attended, that FirstNet was going to be the infrastructure that would take over for the current method of MDT's getting access, with additional access for tablet-type of devices for agencies who found that method more efficient. There may be some PTT ability built into it...but that will be far down the list of priorities. If the people who organized the meeting knew what they were talking about.
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Old 05-20-2017, 12:55 AM
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Wow, encrypted radio communications to come soon at an alarming rate for all or most states, counties & federal agencies everywhere in the USA!! Wow, now if only our computer's, our computer security, our Internet & all of America's (DATA Servers) that hold our personal & sensitive information & files were to soon be that well encrypted & safe from all of the public & world accessing it so that Ransomware, viruses, hackers, malware etc. (could not) so easily takeover us & our computers like they do now? Wouldn't that be something amazing to speak of & about? If only!!

Now not to be off tune here or anything & if I am, I apologize? Here we go: If all agencies go to encrypted radios, frequencies & talkgroups widely throughout most or all the United States of America which can never be heard or picked up by any scanner ever; then how in the heck are all of the slap happy news stations going to listen in on (their scanners/receivers) that they currently & always use to know of the big bad news stories that they all choose to run out & film so quickly & try to be first on scene for?? This since us scanner hobbyists & scanner enthusiasts are soon to no longer be able to hear or pick any of this stuff going on in or around our local towns or cities.

My guess with that one right there is, that each state will spend our hard-earned taxpayer dollars to legally buy & hand out these expensive new radios & radio systems or receivers to all local news stations throughout the USA even though we are in a budget crisis with taxes in America & have been for quite some time as we all know & have heard of on the NEWS to say the least!! The news stations will most likely not at all suffer from any encrypted communications used by police, fire departments, SWAT Teams etc. like we all will when encrypted communications take over fully on our public safety scanners & handheld radio scanners. If the news stations couldn't or were no longer going to be able to listen to their scanners/receivers to know of the big negative news stories to go out & film for (NEWS) due to encrypted receiving communications, then there would be hardly any of what I would call, "negative news stories" which almost all news stations are just too happy & speedy to run out & be first to cover, film & record for their upcoming newscasts. LOL

I cannot at all picture our news station throughout America going without being able to pick up, listen for & hear of the big bad things & news stories happening day in & day out, hour by hour due to encrypted communications to be fully used by police officers, fire departments, Federal agencies etc. as for there would be, not much news coverage for any of us in that case as for most news is negative news being broadcasted to us by them. That is exactly why I predict that each state will simply buy & handout brand new expensive compatible receivers, radios, or scanners to our news stations for their coverage needs being that they will still & always be able to listen-in, hear & pickup encrypted communications no matter what & no matter the taxpayer cost to purchase them for the news stations! This, when we're all soon to be stuck at ZERO with our scanners/radios being unable to receive any type of public safety communications going on around us due to new encryption communications all around us making our longtime hobby toys almost useless & worthless to even own or use anymore.
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Old 05-20-2017, 3:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ofd8001 View Post
Knowing full well that my local system has encrypted a lot more talkgroups on the new system (all EMS and all police except for main dispatch), I still purchased three new scanners over the past couple of years. Plenty of stuff to listen to.

The FIRST NET system as I understand it will be the "pipeline" between Mobile Data Terminals and the computers for computer aided dispatch (and other records management). Presently responders are using air cards, which is costly and responders could have to compete with other users for "data time".

Anything to reduce costs and improve efficiency is a good thing (long as it is reliable).
One of the uses will be for MDT and computers. Will it be cheaper? will it be better? So much depends on so many different things. Is your state going with Firstnet or are they going to roll their own? They have the option of doing either. Some are looking at rolling their own, and using the microwave backbone to connect all their LMR sites together also. Some states just don't want to be on the Firstnet system. All of this will affect the final product.

Cheaper is pretty much already decided that it will not be.
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Old 05-20-2017, 3:30 AM
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My guess with that one right there is, that each state will spend our hard-earned taxpayer dollars to legally buy & hand out these expensive new radios & radio systems or receivers to all local news stations throughout the USA even though we are in a budget crisis with taxes in America & have been for quite some time as we all know & have heard of on the NEWS to say the least!! The news stations will most l.
Actually, the more common practice has been for the news companies to purchase their own radios, and have the agency agree to program up to monitor the system.
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Old 05-20-2017, 3:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DJ11DLN View Post
One of the most common car-to-base calls I hear is words to the effect of, "Dispatch, is the CAD up? I can't get mine to work." Maybe FirstNet will fix this. I don't know...but I wouldn't put it past AT&T to just bundle the new infrastructure in with what they already have, in which case PS data would still have to compete with private users...if you get the impression that I have a poor opinion of AT&T, you would be correct.
:
One of the basic tenets of Firstnet, and something AT&T has already agreed to implement on their regular system for public safety is priority and QOS for the public safety users.

And no, it will not fix the cad being down, that is usually a CAD issue not a transport issue.
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Old 05-20-2017, 3:33 AM
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Yeah, Kenwood bought a chunk of Sonim for the same reason. They had a few of the handsets at IWCE.

PTT over LTE is coming, we know that, but it's not necessarily intended as a replacement for all two way radio systems. No one should be throwing away their scanner or giving up on the hobby just because of FirstNet.

Agreed totally, but there will be pressure to, and there will be agencies that do, just like entire cities that went to Nextel.
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Old 05-20-2017, 6:17 AM
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News flash AT&T is on strike now if that happens then all PUBLIC SERVICE would have no support and may fail.
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