BCD436HP/BCD536HP: Slow Squelch Opening Causing Loss/Missing Of Transmissions

[srich10]

This is my 2nd 436HP(Returned the 1st reference key-pad lag) so far and both have had this issue. While I am scanning my Analog Trunked Motorola Type II SmartZone system in St. Lucie County, I have an issue affecting transmissions roughly 60% of the time. The system voice is setup as follows: Analog and APCO-25 Common Air Interface. All the issues are on analog trunked transmissions which is 95% of our traffic on our TRS. The only P25 audio is 3 talkgroups for public transit and 1 air rescue talkgroup.

The problem occurs when short transmissions are sent out such as "10-4" or "54". I have my 396XT side-by-side on the same system programmed the same way using the RR database via FreeScan and Sentinel database download. Consistently, when short transmissions are sent out, the 396XT will not only beat the 436HP opening squelch (Both set to Squelch=2) but the 396XT will also hear the ENTIRE transmission. The 436 will be late on opening squelch and on the Type II system, will turn on the screen(Display set to on=squelch), squelch opens where I can hear the low subadubile hum of the control channel and background, but little/no voice audio will make it through before squelch closes and the background closes squelch. Similarly, on Brevard County's EDACS TRS, normal transmissions have an accompanying trailing beep at the end of transmissions once the unit lets go of the PTT button. With EDACS; squelch will open, the display comes on, displays the unit ID and talkgroup being transmitted on but only voice coming over is a quick background hum and immediate end-transmission beep. The EDACS talkgroups were not ProVoice enabled and were in the clear.

I have already gone through and checked for delay settings and found none selected. I have even held on the same talkgroup between both the 396XT and 436. Consistently, the 436 was slower and did not open squelch fast enough to hear transmissions. I am only 2-3 air miles from our tower so distance is not an issue. Nor is the antenna...Running a BNC(Uniden supplied BNC-SMA Adapter) RS-800 for our 800mHz system. I've also tried this on a dual-loaded Laird 800 on a 3" NMO Mag-mount on my Dodge Ram with similar results.

Dispatch doesn't request the unit to 10-9(Repeat last) so they hear it on their end, just not on mine.

I will attach links below in separate comments videoing the exact issue if it crops up.

Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated.

 

[Voyager]

Program the analog TGs as a separate System with a P25 WAIT TIME of 0 and it will open immediately.

 

[teufler]

try the screen on the 436 to infinite. See if the circuit setting of lightening up the screen has something to do with the audio coming though.

 

[Voyager]

Where is that face palm pic.....

 

[srich10]

I 2nd that notion

 

[Voyager]

Granted, a 12-face-palm is a bit overkill (double or triple would suffice) but I didn't want to copy someone else.

 

[srich10]

I've in the past had the P25 WAIT TIME set to 0, experimenting with settings ranging from 0-400, trying to get the best audio performance when AIR RESCUE went airborne when the early firmware of the 436 was having difficulties with P25. Having said that, I don't believe that would be of issue anyway since the EDACS systems are exhibiting the same behavior. It's hard for me to explain properly without recording video for you to see in person so that'll be my goal this morning and later afternoon once I get back in county range, to give you a better idea. It's intermittent around 50-60% of the transmissions since we don't have a ton of radio traffic and usually is only comprised of confirmations or ack's of information between records and the units. However, it is annoying when sometimes a conversation holding on one talkgroup would be "...hum(close squelch)....4..hum(close squelch)...4..hum(close squelch)"

 

[srich10]

Granted, a 12-face-palm is a bit overkill (double or triple would suffice) but I didn't want to copy someone else.

:lol::lol::lol:

 

[Voyager]

I've in the past had the P25 WAIT TIME set to 0, experimenting with settings ranging from 0-400, trying to get the best audio performance when AIR RESCUE went airborne when the early firmware of the 436 was having difficulties with P25. Having said that, I don't believe that would be of issue anyway since the EDACS systems are exhibiting the same behavior. It's hard for me to explain properly without recording video for you to see in person so that'll be my goal this morning and later afternoon once I get back in county range, to give you a better idea. It's intermittent around 50-60% of the transmissions since we don't have a ton of radio traffic and usually is only comprised of confirmations or ack's of information between records and the units. However, it is annoying when sometimes a conversation on one talkgroup would be "...hum(close squelch)....4..hum(close squelch)...4..hum(close squelch)"

Agreed about EDACS, but it may well be the issue on the mixed-mode system.

EDACS might be a FM/NFM issue. For that matter, so could the other one, but I really believe trying the WAIT TIME would be a best first step.

You mentioned something interesting in that last line... "4..hum(close squelch)" - is there really hum on the signal? If so, that is a red flag for a couple more issues - specifically AC line interference and misc electronic interference.

I would still try the wait time first, but if the hum really is a hum, try battery only operation as well as battery only away from home (or work - whichever applies) and see if those make a difference.

 

[srich10]

Agreed about EDACS, but it may well be the issue on the mixed-mode system.

EDACS might be a FM/NFM issue. For that matter, so could the other one, but I really believe trying the WAIT TIME would be a best first step.

You mentioned something interesting in that last line... "4..hum(close squelch)" - is there really hum on the signal? If so, that is a red flag for a couple more issues - specifically AC line interference and misc electronic interference.

I would still try the wait time first, but if the hum really is a hum, try battery only operation as well as battery only away from home (or work - whichever applies) and see if those make a difference.

Agreed on the wait time attempt. I'll be able to confirm if this is indeed the issue with our mixed-mode system or not by tomorrow evening once I drive back from Brevard.

I apologize, I should've been more specific what the humming was. At least on my system, the motorola control channel either leaks into the transmission and gives some sort of a background low sounding hum when transmitting or something else is causing the system to put out a background hum on most if not all the radios in the LEO departments. Fire/Rescue seems to not have this issue. Interesting to note that it occurs whether I'm charging via USB brick or running off batteries. I thought of that as well...Maybe some kind of interference from electrical since we have some extremely high voltage wiring coming directly from the Nuclear Plant nearby down the road.

I will point out that the way they constructed the transmitter positioning is somewhat redundant and has caused issues in the past. We have a total of 5 towers all simulcasting on one site listed in RR as East. The interesting fact about these towers is the placement. All 5 towers are around 150 feet in the air. Our county butts up to the Indian River Lagoon and the Nuclear Plant on our coastline. The distance from the coast to the western-most transmitter can only be ~14 miles with 3 of the transmitters being within 3-4 miles of each other. I've pondered whether some distortion was causing transmission degradation or CC degradation(Since we have multiple blackout spots within the county...I'm assuming where the signals start intersecting and interfering with each other) but I haven't been able to confirm anything.

Just some tid bits of info to help diagnose anything and EVERYTHING that could possibly be affecting it. I doubt it's the transmitters since the 396 is alive and kicking well but who knows. At this point, I'm just spitballing for anything

 

[Voyager]

I suspect the PD is digital and the FD is analog, right? If so, you may be hearing either the data leaking through or it's digital artifacts that you are hearing.

 

[srich10]

I suspect the PD is digital and the FD is analog, right? If so, you may be hearing either the data leaking through or it's digital artifacts that you are hearing.

Surprisingly that's not the case. Both PD and FD are analog trunked using XTS2500's with anything ranging from limited keypads/tri-buttons to full keypads for their portables, unknown mobiles.

Here's the link to the system. All the talkgroups are Analog with some interspersed P25 for specialized channels that are never used. All departments are using XTS2500's or lower in model capabilities. They are firmware compatible, I assume, to have P25 capability on the departments requiring P25. Although the P25 talkgroups are never used besides the Air Rescue and public transportation channels.

St Lucie County Public Safety Trunking System, Fort Pierce, Florida - Scanner Frequencies

I've captured some transmissions exhibiting the slowed squelch. I'm encoding the audio as we speak and will be posting it to my YouTube channel with an unlisted link in a future comment so you can get a better idea.

 

[srich10]

Here's the link for when the video finally processes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8c_AuVh9Yw&feature=youtu.be

 

[kb8rvp]

BCD436HP: Slow Squelch Opening Causing Loss/Missing Of Transmissions

Are you using the original memory card? If so I would try going with a class 10 faster card to see if it works any better. I know the original card had issues with slow button operation and such. I picked one up at Walgreens for $11 and the scanner response is better over all.

Mike

 

[troymail]

As far as the button pushes and SD card issues -- I agree that the only options there are:

• keep the number of recordings on the card to a minimum; if full time user recording, the more recordings, the slower the radio is to respond to button pushes (even worse while the radio is processing P25 Phase 2)
• only use good, fast (Class 10) cards - and still expect some sluggishness

As far as the clipped audio - I've been doing various tests here because I'm (now?) seeing the same thing on my mixed mode system. Fire and services are analog, most police agencies are digital (Anne Arundel County Trunking System, Annapolis, Maryland - Scanner Frequencies)

I'm all the way to the point of these settings:

• ID Scan (I usually run in ID Search mode)
• system/site HOLD set to 255 (vs. default 0) - this is to eliminate the constant dropping of the CC that the radio normally does
• system HOLD enabled (only scanning this single system)
• P25 Wait time is set to 0 (not sure why this even matters for talkgroups programmed as "analog" so I don't get Voyager's point/comment above)

Some other non-default settings:

• user RECording is still enabled
• Status bits are being processed

At this point, the signal bars only "flash" off (housekeeping?) once every 255 seconds.

I'm watching the 436, trunker, and listening to another scanner at the same time only monitoring this same system...

The 436 is still missing the first part of some analog transmissions (going from "idle" - as in - the radio is not leaving one talkgroup for another; this is "silence" for seconds to voice).

I decided to load the latest firmware prior to this test.. I'll probably "roll back" and do the same tests using at least the previous version of the firmware to see what happens.

 

[srich10]

As far as the button pushes and SD card issues -- I agree that the only options there are:

• keep the number of recordings on the card to a minimum; if full time user recording, the more recordings, the slower the radio is to respond to button pushes (even worse while the radio is processing P25 Phase 2)
• only use good, fast (Class 10) cards - and still expect some sluggishness

As far as the clipped audio - I've been doing various tests here because I'm (now?) seeing the same thing on my mixed mode system. Fire and services are analog, most police agencies are digital (Anne Arundel County Trunking System, Annapolis, Maryland - Scanner Frequencies)

I'm all the way to the point of these settings:

• ID Scan (I usually run in ID Search mode)
• system/site HOLD set to 255 (vs. default 0) - this is to eliminate the constant dropping of the CC that the radio normally does
• system HOLD enabled (only scanning this single system)
• P25 Wait time is set to 0 (not sure why this even matters for talkgroups programmed as "analog" so I don't get Voyager's point/comment above)

Some other non-default settings:

• user RECording is still enabled
• Status bits are being processed

At this point, the signal bars only "flash" off (housekeeping?) once every 255 seconds.

I'm watching the 436, trunker, and listening to another scanner at the same time only monitoring this same system...

The 436 is still missing the first part of some analog transmissions (going from "idle" - as in - the radio is not leaving one talkgroup for another; this is "silence" for seconds to voice).

I decided to load the latest firmware prior to this test.. I'll probably "roll back" and do the same tests using at least the previous version of the firmware to see what happens.

I'm ecstatic I'm not the only user experiencing the same issues with their 436's. Still, it is an issue that shouldn't be happening.

I've loaded in a Class 10 card already and had no recordings on it while still experiencing the same issues. Design wise, the speed of the card shouldn't affect the performance of the scanner live but that's for another thread...

I'll try the recommendations and report back. If you guys need anymore recordings between the few P25 transmission we have and analog traffic comparisons, I can gladly make more.

 

[daredevil1]

I know this is an old thread but any update on this? Having the same issue but only monitoring one APCO-25 system.

 

[sprite1741]

See if my video is what yours is doing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPd3KxA7XYo

 

[daredevil1]

See if my video is what yours is doing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPd3KxA7XYo

Not quite as much of a delay as in the video, but yes, that's what it's doing.

 

[sprite1741]

I have tried every setting and have been unable to fix it. Even if I hold on a talk-group it still misses the 1st second sometimes. I am at a loss to get it to work right.