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  #701 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2010, 9:05 AM
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Will probably start getting crazy this weekend...full page ad in Popular Science starts running today. Similar ads in Popular Communications, National Communications, and Monitoring Times start running this month, too (October issues).
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Last edited by UPMan; 09-10-2010 at 9:08 AM..
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  #702 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2010, 3:23 PM
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You know this is a REALLY awesome product and I would really love to have one, but if we are being honest with ourselves, items like this are why more and more departments are going encrypted
  #703 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2010, 3:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrenchFeeder View Post
You know this is a REALLY awesome product and I would really love to have one, but if we are being honest with ourselves, items like this are why more and more departments are going encrypted
Since it's tax dollars that pay for the radio systems for public services like police and fire and what have you, I sure wish those agencies would ask our permission before going encrypted for non security sensitive operations.
  #704 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2010, 4:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrenchFeeder View Post
items like this are why more and more departments are going encrypted
Absolutely not... Makes a nice sound bite - but there is no evidence that HP1 or anything like it related to scanning (even RR feeds) has any bearing on department encryption decisions.
  #705 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2010, 6:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdale View Post
Absolutely not... Makes a nice sound bite - but there is no evidence that HP1 or anything like it related to scanning (even RR feeds) has any bearing on department encryption decisions.
Well, if you really think about it, it makes perfect sense. The easier for larger amounts of people to hear police transmissions it becomes, the more likely that more criminals will use the technology, especially considering it takes no skill or knowledge to use. Which suggests that any common sense using police department would decrypt their radios if they know that any old Joe can hear them.

As of now when I get pulled over most officers are baffled that I have not only their entire trunked systems at the touch of a button, but usually the entire county, and often end up asking me to explain how and where I learned to do it. That tells me that right now they don't see it as an active problem, but that will quickly change should it become more common for them to encounter scanners
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  #706 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2010, 7:49 AM
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Default Encryption problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrenchFeeder View Post
Well, if you really think about it, it makes perfect sense. The easier for larger amounts of people to hear police transmissions it becomes, the more likely that more criminals will use the technology, especially considering it takes no skill or knowledge to use. Which suggests that any common sense using police department would decrypt their radios if they know that any old Joe can hear them.

As of now when I get pulled over most officers are baffled that I have not only their entire trunked systems at the touch of a button, but usually the entire county, and often end up asking me to explain how and where I learned to do it. That tells me that right now they don't see it as an active problem, but that will quickly change should it become more common for them to encounter scanners
Here is the problem with encryption: the news media. Once the police go to total encryption, they lock out the media. That will generate huge lawsuits. And the police are not going to issue police radios to every journalist.

Second encryption locks out departments. One agency will often not allow other agencies access to their talkgroups. Thus a reduction in interoperability. For example the local ambulance service will not allow the fire fighters on their talk groups. Therefore the EMS guys have scanners to listen to the fire groups. Scanners are also used by cops to listen to adjacent patrol areas and to other police agencies. Encryption forces everyone to limit themselves to only their talkgroups.

Finally cops love being able to talk without the brass listening. How long do you think it would take to have talkgroups created that the brass are not aware of? With encryption it is possible to have a talkgroup that can even lock out the brass.
  #707 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2010, 11:36 AM
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You are right about other police agencies being able to hear other police like in South Bend the State Police will come in to town and I hear them call in saying they just heard a robbery or accident on Their scanner and Their on there way to help out it happens all the time.
  #708 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2010, 1:09 PM
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Originally Posted by n9nwo View Post
Finally cops love being able to talk without the brass listening. How long do you think it would take to have talkgroups created that the brass are not aware of? With encryption it is possible to have a talkgroup that can even lock out the brass.
Since it usually requires the brass's approval to add resources, (and more than just the LE brass to make changes to an entire trunked network), I would venture to say never is a reasonable assumption .
  #709 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2010, 1:34 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyC View Post
Since it usually requires the brass's approval to add resources, (and more than just the LE brass to make changes to an entire trunked network), I would venture to say never is a reasonable assumption .
An "approved" talk group would require the proper leadership endorsement. But all it takes to create a talk group is the techs in charge to make it happen. The average police brass is clueless about technology, just as are most cops.

Look at how computer tech create things all the time on systems that no one has any idea that they are doing. How many groups, outside of DOD, have a computer security group? Thus it is some tech who knows the right codes who could create a talk group on an encrypted system that not even the brass would know was there.

One thing that you have to understand is that the bigger the organization, the more places there are to hide.
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  #710 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2010, 2:07 PM
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Originally Posted by n9nwo View Post
Thus it is some tech who knows the right codes who could create a talk group on an encrypted system that not even the brass would know was there.

One thing that you have to understand is that the bigger the organization, the more places there are to hide.
Then all the radios are reprogrammed with these secret talkgroups behind the supervisors backs. Okie dokie.
  #711 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2010, 7:27 PM
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Default Encryption problems

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Originally Posted by JoeyC View Post
Then all the radios are reprogrammed with these secret talkgroups behind the supervisors backs. Okie dokie.
Not all, just for those guys in the group. It is like the Speedway cops who used 2m ham gear. Or the IMPD cops who use out band CB. Have to have a place to talk without the brass, or the public, listening in. That way you can tell your dirty jobs, even racist jokes, and get your stories straight after a major incident. It happens in every department.
  #712 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2010, 8:44 PM
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Not all, just for those guys in the group. It is like the Speedway cops who used 2m ham gear. Or the IMPD cops who use out band CB.
No, it is not like that. Nor is it related to the HP1.
  #713 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2010, 7:04 AM
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Default Encryption problems

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Originally Posted by rdale View Post
No, it is not like that. Nor is it related to the HP1.
The point was to counter the worries of those who saw this radio as being too easy to use thus every gang banger would have one. And that would lead to more encryption. My counter argument is that encryption has its own set of problems such lawsuits, lack of interoperability and that it would be easy to have talk groups that the brass would not know of.

Therefore I am not worried that the HP-1 will lead to more encryption. The i-Phone app that allows you to listen to the police frequencies is far more available than what the HP-1 will be.
  #714 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2010, 3:45 PM
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Back on topic, please.
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  #715 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2010, 7:12 PM
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will acquire the HomePatrol unit.now i can listen digital without all that complicated operating requirements the current scanners have.been into scanners and scanning since 1970s .
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  #716 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2010, 7:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangowest View Post
will acquire the HomePatrol unit.now i can listen digital without all that complicated operating requirements the current scanners have.been into scanners and scanning since 1970s .
Finally someone gets it. I think this is Uniden's whole point with the HP-1. Too many potential customers were scarred away before.
  #717 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2010, 12:47 PM
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I agree with both sides of this discussion. Perhaps, having more scanning customers available might create additional incentives for scanner manufacturers to increase development and research. Not everyone can understand how to program. And, the so-called, "dumbing down" does not really apply. Despite what you might think, most people are right or left hemisphere dominant. For instance, the sequential & analytical skills that a left-brain oriented individual might possess does not make them more intelligent than someone with right-brain dominance. The right hemisphere processes things differently. This hemisphere is largely visually-based. Negation does not make its way to this hemisphere. For instance, if I were to say, "Johnny plants a tree" a person could visual such. If I were to say, "Johnny does not plant a tree", there is really no image that is produced. The best example of negation not making its way into the right hemisphere is this, "don't picture a red apple on a white tablecloth." Tell me, did you see it? If you tell yourself, "I will not overeat", the "not" (negation) drops out. Unconsciously, you are basically telling yourself, "I will overeat." So, right hemisphere individuals might appreciate the right brain ease of pressing a zip code. It does not make them less intelligent.
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  #718 (permalink)  
Old 09-21-2010, 7:34 AM
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Ya...that's it....
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  #719 (permalink)  
Old 09-21-2010, 4:45 PM
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Sometimes, I should just shut up. Ha.
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  #720 (permalink)  
Old 09-21-2010, 4:47 PM
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Ya...that's it....
 

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