BCD996T Rebanding

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bookoffby4

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I have updated the firmware and am running the current ARC996 software. For some reason I have lost the ability to receive the Connecticut State Police. Things look normal on the scanner, so I think rebanding could be the issue. I researched this site and came up some good information. My problem seems to be how to apply the band plans. I found the following...

* XT version scanners already have the firmware updates to support rebanding. Non-XT scanners will need to undergo the appropriate firmware updates. These updates are listed here. Note that systems that are true P25 types would not require entry of the table values below, as they should get all the necessary information from the control channel.


Band Plan Base Freq (lower) Base Freq (upper) Offset Polarity Spacing
1 851.025 854.000 440 + 25 khz
2 851.0125 868.9875 0 + 25 khz

How do I apply this information? I can't seem to find a place to insert this data. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

datainmotion

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I have updated the firmware and am running the current ARC996 software. For some reason I have lost the ability to receive the Connecticut State Police. Things look normal on the scanner, so I think rebanding could be the issue. I researched this site and came up some good information. My problem seems to be how to apply the band plans. I found the following...

I don't know that you should have to do anything other than change the frequencies in the scanner to the new CT rebanded freqs. Here in CO, that's all we had to do...
 

hiegtx

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I have updated the firmware and am running the current ARC996 software. For some reason I have lost the ability to receive the Connecticut State Police. Things look normal on the scanner, so I think rebanding could be the issue. I researched this site and came up some good information. My problem seems to be how to apply the band plans. I found the following...

* XT version scanners already have the firmware updates to support rebanding. Non-XT scanners will need to undergo the appropriate firmware updates. These updates are listed here. Note that systems that are true P25 types would not require entry of the table values below, as they should get all the necessary information from the control channel.


Band Plan Base Freq (lower) Base Freq (upper) Offset Polarity Spacing
1 851.025 854.000 440 + 25 khz
2 851.0125 868.9875 0 + 25 khz

How do I apply this information? I can't seem to find a place to insert this data. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
None of the sites on the Connecticut State Police system are tagged (yet) as rebanded. However, no guarantee that it could not have happened in your area, but not yet submitted.

Not sure which version of ARC996 you have (I have the 'Pro' version, but the main difference between the two is recording capability).

You will need a the latest version of ARC996, if you don't already have it. (Butel's website shows the current version is V4.0.) On the assumption that you already have updated the software:
Open the system file.
Click on the site you want to modify for rebanding.
Change the system type from Motorola Type 2 800mhz Standard to ->
Motorola 2 800 Mhz Custom
Now, down at the bottom of the 'site' detail screen, you'll see a 'button' labeled "Edit Custom Bandplan".
Click on that.
Once you do that, you'll see three choices- Rebanded, Standard 800, and Splinter 800.
Click on "Rebanded 800".
This will automatically enter the values needed for a rebanded system. (The sames ones you list in your post.)

While the Connecticut State Police system shows to use "APCO-25 Common Air Interface Exclusive" as the 'system voice', the underlying system itself is Motorola Type 2, so rebanding information (if & when the system is rebanded) must be entered.

For systems such as Colorado's DTRS, Rhode Island's RISCON. or Illinois' StarCom21, which are Project 25 systems (and also list "APCO-25 Common Air Interface Exclusive" as the 'system voice'), no custom table is required for rebanding.
 

bookoffby4

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Bcd996t csp

None of the sites on the Connecticut State Police system are tagged (yet) as rebanded. However, no guarantee that it could not have happened in your area, but not yet submitted.

Not sure which version of ARC996 you have (I have the 'Pro' version, but the main difference between the two is recording capability).

You will need a the latest version of ARC996, if you don't already have it. (Butel's website shows the current version is V4.0.) On the assumption that you already have updated the software:
Open the system file.
Click on the site you want to modify for rebanding.
Change the system type from Motorola Type 2 800mhz Standard to ->
Motorola 2 800 Mhz Custom
Now, down at the bottom of the 'site' detail screen, you'll see a 'button' labeled "Edit Custom Bandplan".
Click on that.
Once you do that, you'll see three choices- Rebanded, Standard 800, and Splinter 800.
Click on "Rebanded 800".
This will automatically enter the values needed for a rebanded system. (The sames ones you list in your post.)

While the Connecticut State Police system shows to use "APCO-25 Common Air Interface Exclusive" as the 'system voice', the underlying system itself is Motorola Type 2, so rebanding information (if & when the system is rebanded) must be entered.

For systems such as Colorado's DTRS, Rhode Island's RISCON. or Illinois' StarCom21, which are Project 25 systems (and also list "APCO-25 Common Air Interface Exclusive" as the 'system voice'), no custom table is required for rebanding.

Thanks for your reply. I followed what you outlined. I changed all 15 sites to Motorola Type 2 800MHz Custom. Then selected Reband on the bottom tab. The two lines of information appeared as you described. I deleted the system from the scanner and reloaded it with the new settings. I am still not picking up anything. I have my BCD396T next to the 996 and it picks up everything. I'm not sure what is going on here. My scanner has the following settings: All sites are on the same quick key, they are all active. All groups have their own group quick key and they are all active. (nothing locked out). ID is set to scan ( I tried ID Search with no luck). Delay time is 2sec. Status bit is set to Ignore. End Code is set to Ignore. I Call is off. P25 wait time is 400ms. The scanner firmware is 3.02.00, SUM=10 Mver=3. And the ARC996 is V4.0 b001 basic. That is all of the information I can think of that you may need. I down loaded the system data for the Conn. State Police directly from Radio Reference. Any follow up you have would be greatly appreciated.
 

hiegtx

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Thanks for your reply. I followed what you outlined. I changed all 15 sites to Motorola Type 2 800MHz Custom. Then selected Reband on the bottom tab. The two lines of information appeared as you described. I deleted the system from the scanner and reloaded it with the new settings. I am still not picking up anything. I have my BCD396T next to the 996 and it picks up everything. I'm not sure what is going on here. My scanner has the following settings: All sites are on the same quick key, they are all active. All groups have their own group quick key and they are all active. (nothing locked out). ID is set to scan ( I tried ID Search with no luck). Delay time is 2sec. Status bit is set to Ignore. End Code is set to Ignore. I Call is off. P25 wait time is 400ms. The scanner firmware is 3.02.00, SUM=10 Mver=3. And the ARC996 is V4.0 b001 basic. That is all of the information I can think of that you may need. I down loaded the system data for the Conn. State Police directly from Radio Reference. Any follow up you have would be greatly appreciated.
As the system data, for the minute (in the database here), does not show that any of the sites have been "rebanded", that may (or may not be an issue (yet). Last night, I looked at the license data for a couple of the sites, to see if they had the "rebanded" frequencies assigned, and the license code (YE) for a rebanded system. The ones I looked at did not, but I did not check all of them, by any means. Here is the FCC license for Site 001 (as of 10/23/2010). It still shows a code of YF, Public Safety Trunked. Now, just as a comparison, here is a license for a rebanded system in my area, which is a rebanded system. Note the code "YE", which is used for rebanded systems.

In general, when a system is rebanded, the frequencies in the 866->868mhz range are replaced by ones 15mhz lower. Thus, for site 001 on Connecticut State Police (Troop G simulcast), the current frequencies of 866.71250a, 867.20000, 867.58750, 868.20000a, and 868.75000c would be probably replaced by 851.7125, 852.2000, 852.5875, 853.2000, and 853.7500. I say "probably", because occasionally, the blanket 'subtract 15mhz to get the new frequency' rule is not followed if that would cause one of the new, "rebanded" assignments to possibly interfere with an existing licensee in that frequency band. Also, some systems will add one or more frequencies during the rebanding process, to increase capacity. Additionally, the new control channel, once rebanded, might not be the 'old control channel minus 15mhz'.

I would suggest a couple of things:
To determine if the site or sites) near you have rebanded, try entering the probable 'reband' frequencies in a conventional system, and manually stepping through them via the scroll knob. If there is a control channel on one of them, you'll know that the rebanding process is underway, or soon will be. If you hear voice traffic, on the "new channels", then it has been done. (Note: Instead of creating, & loading a system, you can also do this manually- Press "Hold", now enter one of the frequencies, then press "Hold" again. You're now holding on that one frequency.)

You can also take the existing, pre-rebanding, system, and then set it up with both the old, & projected "new" frequencies, so that when the process occurs, you'll be set up. Just be sure that you make the change to Motorola Type 2 Custom, & set the rebanded bandplan. I would also enter all of the 'projected new channels', in case the new control channel is not the -15mhz 'clone' of the old control. The modified system will work with all of the frequencies entered. Once the reband process is confirmed complete, you can then go back and delete the frequencies that are no longer used (those in the 866--868mhz range).

Are you hearing other 800mhz trunked systems, without a problem? If not, this could be a reception issue, instead of a rebanding or programming issue.

If none of the above hits on the problem, then I'd suggest posting your file for someone to look at, and see if something appears missing. Since your 396T file works, try importing that into the 996, and see if it works. (You can easily do that with FreeScan, if you can't get it into ARC996 to load.) If the 396T file works, and especially if it works when loading into the 996 with FreeScan, then either there's a problem with how the system is set up in ARC996, or it's getting corrupted downloading to the scanner.
 

bookoffby4

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As the system data, for the minute (in the database here), does not show that any of the sites have been "rebanded", that may (or may not be an issue (yet). Last night, I looked at the license data for a couple of the sites, to see if they had the "rebanded" frequencies assigned, and the license code (YE) for a rebanded system. The ones I looked at did not, but I did not check all of them, by any means. Here is the FCC license for Site 001 (as of 10/23/2010). It still shows a code of YF, Public Safety Trunked. Now, just as a comparison, here is a license for a rebanded system in my area, which is a rebanded system. Note the code "YE", which is used for rebanded systems.

In general, when a system is rebanded, the frequencies in the 866->868mhz range are replaced by ones 15mhz lower. Thus, for site 001 on Connecticut State Police (Troop G simulcast), the current frequencies of 866.71250a, 867.20000, 867.58750, 868.20000a, and 868.75000c would be probably replaced by 851.7125, 852.2000, 852.5875, 853.2000, and 853.7500. I say "probably", because occasionally, the blanket 'subtract 15mhz to get the new frequency' rule is not followed if that would cause one of the new, "rebanded" assignments to possibly interfere with an existing licensee in that frequency band. Also, some systems will add one or more frequencies during the rebanding process, to increase capacity. Additionally, the new control channel, once rebanded, might not be the 'old control channel minus 15mhz'.

I would suggest a couple of things:
To determine if the site or sites) near you have rebanded, try entering the probable 'reband' frequencies in a conventional system, and manually stepping through them via the scroll knob. If there is a control channel on one of them, you'll know that the rebanding process is underway, or soon will be. If you hear voice traffic, on the "new channels", then it has been done. (Note: Instead of creating, & loading a system, you can also do this manually- Press "Hold", now enter one of the frequencies, then press "Hold" again. You're now holding on that one frequency.)

You can also take the existing, pre-rebanding, system, and then set it up with both the old, & projected "new" frequencies, so that when the process occurs, you'll be set up. Just be sure that you make the change to Motorola Type 2 Custom, & set the rebanded bandplan. I would also enter all of the 'projected new channels', in case the new control channel is not the -15mhz 'clone' of the old control. The modified system will work with all of the frequencies entered. Once the reband process is confirmed complete, you can then go back and delete the frequencies that are no longer used (those in the 866--868mhz range).

Are you hearing other 800mhz trunked systems, without a problem? If not, this could be a reception issue, instead of a rebanding or programming issue.

If none of the above hits on the problem, then I'd suggest posting your file for someone to look at, and see if something appears missing. Since your 396T file works, try importing that into the 996, and see if it works. (You can easily do that with FreeScan, if you can't get it into ARC996 to load.) If the 396T file works, and especially if it works when loading into the 996 with FreeScan, then either there's a problem with how the system is set up in ARC996, or it's getting corrupted downloading to the scanner.

I do hear other 800MHz Trunked systems. I will try you recommendations. Thank you for your quick and thorough response.
 

bookoffby4

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I do hear other 800MHz Trunked systems. I will try you recommendations. Thank you for your quick and thorough response.

I'm back on line. I utilized the FreeScan program to move the 396T information to the 996T. Everything is up and running. Thanks for your help.
 
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