Uniden P25 Phase II Scanner???!!!

[mfn002]

I know this is a topic that has been discussed here over and over, but I'm wondering when one might hit the store shelves. With the City of Houston announcing that they will be completely switched to their new Phase II system by December, and with Houston FD and Houston PD announcing they will be transitioning to it by August 28, I suspect there will be a lot more people wondering, too.

 

[ka3jjz]

Even if they were developing one, no one could say anything - and right now, I wouldn't be holding my breath. Mike

 

[mfn002]

Even if they were developing one, no one could say anything - and right now, I wouldn't be holding my breath. Mike

Yeah, I know. It would be nice to know that Uniden is paying attention to something else besides the Home Patrol, though.

 

[RoninJoliet]

Mr Opitz (Uniden) is reading every thing on these boards, im sure he has all the facts and technology ready for the future Phase11 scanner, its just when the country wide demand for producing a model is profitable......I would say watch out for the Communications show in Jan in Las Vegas.....

 

[Highpockets]

I just hope that if they do come out with something it's more like the 396/996 then the Home Patrol. Speaking for myself the Home Patrol is like the Edsel in the car industry.

 

[GTR8000]

Uniden would be pretty foolish to not already have a TDMA capable scanner in the works. The GRE PSR-800, which decodes X2-TDMA but not Phase II TDMA, has been out for over a year and a half already. I realize the demand for TDMA capable scanners hasn't exactly been through the roof, but these systems are getting built out at a fairly good pace now. If Uniden doesn't get something released within the next 6-8 months, they're really going to be behind the 8 ball. Of course if GRE can't get the PSR-800 to decode Phase II TDMA with a firmware update, Uniden can grab back a share of the TDMA market if they release something relatively soon.

I just hope that if they do come out with something it's more like the 396/996 then the Home Patrol. Speaking for myself the Home Patrol is like the Edsel in the car industry.

I'm totally with you there, Steve. If the only TDMA capable device Uniden releases is a HomePatrol type scanner, I will be very disappointed, and I know I won't be alone.

 

[lep]

If the only TDMA capable device Uniden releases is a HomePatrol type scanner, I will be very disappointed, and I know I won't be alone.

Since none of the Japanese manufacturers reveal sales figures (GRE, Uniden, Icom, Kenwood, Yaseu) it is a mystery how many units they actually sell. However, the HP-1 is only for the "american market" [I subscribe to several foreign language radio magaiznes, i.e. Japanese, English, German, French] and there is no worldwide market for "Phase II" ...yes, it will be interesting to see what comes next in the consumer scanner line.

My bet is that the HP is a money maker for them and that they will continue to develop a scanner in that line.

 

[GTR8000]

To be clear, I have no problem if they develop and release a 2nd generation HP that features TDMA capability. What will bother me is if that's the only device they release featuring TDMA. I know many of us don't care much for that type of device, be it the HP-1 or the GRE line of keypadless devices.

So I guess the question remains, has Uniden put all their eggs in the HomePatrol basket, or will they continue to develop more traditional style scanners like the 15/346/396/996 line? I guess time will tell, but I do have my gut feeling about it.

 

[Boatanchor]

The next models coming out will have to be based on some kind of Software Defined platform if they are going to decode various FDMA and TDMA modes and be future proof.

With products like DSDforWin and cheap $15 SDR dongles just starting to make their mark in the hobby, I will put my money on a Software Defined product that incorporates various common digital voice standards. It makes sense for manufacturers to produce a basic model that does P25 and then have additional digital modes & features 'enabled' by paying an upgrade cost.

Sound familiar? Well, Uniden have already dipped their toes in this pool with the HP1 and its extreme 'upgrade'. It's not a long bow to stretch this to 'enabling' additional DV modes in future models.

The challenge will be to package it in such a way that it pleases as many people as possible, most of the time. The things is that once you have the basic RF/IF/Demodulator systems in place, it's just a matter of packaging it in user friendly handheld and base/mobile configurations.

 

[mfn002]

I would like a hand-held scanner for this. You can't exactly use a Home Patrol as a handheld scanner. Also, I would like a scanner that you can actually program WITHOUT a computer. I also don't want to wade through thousands of preprogrammed systems. When I got my 396 and 996, I deleted all of them. If Uniden could make a successor to the 396/996, and that would be what I (and probably a lot of other people) are looking for, not some stupid scanner that requires a computer to do anything more than change a frequency.

 

[RadioDitch]

Frankly, I don't care if it's SDR, handheld, mobile, backpack, update, subscription, whatever. I think the overall point is that Uniden, by far still the industry leader, best be working on a Phase II TDMA scanner or upgrade. I'd be amazed if they weren't.

It only makes sense. How can you continue to be a force in the scanner market if your receivers aren't capable of decoding the standardized open protocols? And reality is that Phase II TDMA is slowly becoming a reality with the new 700MHz Interoperability TRS's.

I'd also imagine that Uniden is probably begging to consider the need for NXDN/IDAS support. Cause I'll be frank. Uniden is going to loose a SIZABLE chunk of their market...railfans...if they don't support NXDN when the railroads change in several years. And Kenwood & Icom did just release the protocol publicly.

Phase II TDMA, X2-TDMA, and NXDN. Uniden needs these to stay current! UPman...we know you're listening!

 

[Highpockets]

I think the overall point is that Uniden, by far still the industry leader,

Some may disagree with that.

 

[ka3jjz]

Another thing to keep in mind is that I heard that the NXDN protocol was recently released to the public. I'm unsure whether Phase II has also been released. That may play a significant role in Uniden - or anyone else - trying to make a Phase II compatible trunktracker. Legal and research cost big bucks, and right now, the economy with the way it is, it would be understandable if nothing were being done on that right now.

Besides, do you really think UPMan wants to tip his hand if something were indeed on the drawing board? If I were him, there's one phrase that comes to mind - loose lips sink ships

Mike

 

[GTR8000]

I'm unsure whether Phase II has also been released. That may play a significant role in Uniden - or anyone else - trying to make a Phase II compatible trunktracker.

Phase II TDMA is part of the APCO Project 25 standard, which is open source. The specifications were published in November 2010.

 

[Denverpilot]

Phase II TDMA is part of the APCO Project 25 standard, which is open source. The specifications were published in November 2010.

Incorrect. Open specification. Not open source. Source is computer code. The phrase "open source" means a specific thing, but is slang at times for when people think something is freely available.

And open isn't necessarily monetarily ($) free, since copyright applies to many of the documents. TIA doesn't do freebies, for example.

Here's a pretty good document that lists all of the documents that make up the specifications for various components of P-25 and who's been responsible for each component. It's a start, anyway.

http://www.pscr.gov/outreach/p25dsr/menu_top/downloads/P25dsr.pdf

 

[GTR8000]

Open specification. Not open source. Source is computer code.

That's what I meant, "open standard". Blame my IT background for the slip up in terminology. :wink:

 

[KE5TLF]

Some may disagree with that.

You got that right. Whatever Uniden does next you can bank on them taking their sweet *** time doing it. As history has proven time and again.

 

[georgesharpe]

Next generation scanners

Perhaps we have come to the "end of the line?" With so much encryption going on, DC is a good example, there may well be NO more new scanners on the market. Uniden seems to be drifting out of the scanner market bit by bit, and GRE has not much new except that soon? to be released 900.

 

[SCPD]

Let's look at some market numbers taken from the RR DB.

Motorola - about 1600 systems worldwide.
P25 - about 380 systems worldwide
P25 TDMA - 26 systems
NEXEDGE - 48 systems
MOTOTRBO - 108 systems

I'd like to see EDACS and Opensky numbers but I'm too lazy to try. Of the numbers given, Motorola outnumbers the other categories combined.

The NEXEDGE and TRBO numbers are under-reported because most folks don't know how to distinguish them from other formats. These numbers also do not include hundreds of conventional DMR and NXDN channels. Either way, if I was a scanner manufacturer, I'd have to consider the P25 TDMA market a small one. In fact, given these numbers, I'm surprised we have the PSR800 today.

There are a lot of flaws and assumptions in using these numbers but I think it makes a good if rough sketch of the situation.

 

[KE5TLF]

Umm system count means very little, especially when counting P25 systems. Need to look at those more from a site count or coverage area perspective.

From a USA only standpoint, the P25 systems in large part cover entire states, or are to eventually, consisting of 100 plus sites each. The majority of those that haven't already, will also end up P25 Phase II at some point too. Just in the 3 states of MS, LA, and AR, you're talking over 300 sites. (probably over 400)