Next Generation Scanners

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Paul-W

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I was just wondering if anyone here has heard any talk about the next generation of scanners, whenever they come out, having the ability to scan Kenwood Nextedge systems and Motorola Mototrbo systems. I am seeing more and more of these systems coming online and am getting a little concerned that in a few years. scanners radios will be become absolete. I sure hope that Uniden and or GRE are planning to incorporate this into the next generation of scanners.
 

Highpockets

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I was just wondering if anyone here has heard any talk about the next generation of scanners, whenever they come out, having the ability to scan Kenwood Nextedge systems and Motorola Mototrbo systems. I am seeing more and more of these systems coming online and am getting a little concerned that in a few years. scanners radios will be become absolete. I sure hope that Uniden and or GRE are planning to incorporate this into the next generation of scanners.

One of the guys that went to Dayton mentioned that GRE is working on a few things, as far as Uniden, you'll never know, they have a company policy that will not let them offer such information. So, we'll just have to wait and see what will be offered in the future by both companies.
 

timmer

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I'm not very knowledgeable on these new systems other than what I have read about them online. I was under the impression that NO scanner would ever be made that is capable of monitoring these Nexedge systems. I had read somewhere that Nextel will not allow any scanner manufacturerer to make such a scanner, similar to the open sky systems that came out some time ago. Not sure if this is correct info but just passing along what I read. I'm a long time scanner listener but have been preparing myself for the day that scanning comes to an end, especially in regards to public safety comms. My local dept. still can be monitored, however any time they wish to not put a call over the air they simply just tell the officers to "check their mdc for a call" or tell them to call on their cell. Not to mention just out and out encrypting some comms, as some agencies do.The bottom line is, if they don't want the public to hear it, you won't.
 

AK9R

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I was under the impression that NO scanner would ever be made that is capable of monitoring these Nexedge systems. I had read somewhere that Nextel will not allow any scanner manufacturerer to make such a scanner...
Nexedge and Nextel are not the same thing.

Nextel was a two-way communications/cellular telephone company that used the iDen protocol developed by Motorola. The primary selling point for Nextel was the Direct Connect feature that allowed you to use your phone like a two-way radio. Nextel has been purchased by Sprint. Sprint has pretty much eliminated the Direct Connect feature and has moved former Nextel subscribers to Sprint's cell phone technology.

Nexedge is Kenwood's trade name for a digital two-way radio protocol developed by Kenwood and Icom called NXDN. Icom calls their NXDN system IDAS. The NXDN protocol is available to entities who want to develop NXDN radios. Here is a list of radio companies who have signed up for the NXDN protocol:

Who are our members? | Our Members | NXDN Forum Website

The NXDN Forum has also announced that they will make their standards freely available to the public later this year.
 

russellmaher

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You have to wonder that if the scanner people come up with units that can monitor these types of transmissions, won't the companies that design the systems for public safety agencies come up with another method of encrypting those systems that don't want to be monitored.

When radar detectors became affordable for the average guy to be alerted when he came into an area where the P.D. was setting speed traps, the manufacturers developed newer technology for the radar guns, so then the detector people came up with detectors for those types, etc., etc. You get the idea!

It's just going to be the same for us, I think. IMO

Russell
 

troshs

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As far as I thought, scanners were going to become obsolete one day because no one wants to be monitored. Seems like every hobby I have goes this direction...
 

AK9R

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You have to wonder that if the scanner people come up with units that can monitor these types of transmissions, won't the companies that design the systems for public safety agencies come up with another method of encrypting those systems that don't want to be monitored.
I didn't think we were talking about encryption. I believe it's illegal in the US to decrypt an encrypted communication unless authorized, so I doubt any scanner manufacturer will market a scanner in the US that can do so.

We were talking about digital encoding and trunking systems, like NXDN and DMR, that currently marketed scanners don't support. These systems are not necessarily encrypted.

Yes, there will be a constant leap frogging of technology between systems and scanners. And, yes, I do think we'll reach the end of the line at some point.
 

dispatcher812

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If you have a PC, you can receive and decode NXDN, MotoTRBO, P25 and X2-TDMA for about $25 using DSD and an RTLSDR

I have seen that but right now the only entity in my area that MAY even switch NXDN is the Railroad and I am not even sure it will ever happen. I know there are other Railroads that will or already have, they are just not in my region of the counrty. No Public Safety has any plans for it that I know of so the only thing I would want to listen to are trains and again, that may never come in my area. But just having one with the ability would be nice if it ever does.
 

AZScanner

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If you have a PC, you can receive and decode NXDN, MotoTRBO, P25 and X2-TDMA for about $25 using DSD and an RTLSDR

^^ This.

You wanted to know what the next generation of scanners will be? That's it. SDR. From there, the sky's the limit. With an RTL-SDR and the right software, you can theoretically decode or monitor just about anything.

P25? Yup. X2-TDMA? Yup. NXDN? Trbo? Provoice? You bet. Even encryption? Sure, it's possible, and been done. RD/LAP (Mobile data terminals)? Yes, that's been done too. What about mobile video/COFDM? Why not? It's just a matter of writing or obtaining the right software because your "scanner" is a dongle connected to a computer.

Yeah, sure but what about portability, you say? Who wants to lug around a big desktop or laptop computer you say? Fear not good citizen, there's a solution for that too.

I think the scanner of the future will be a portable computer like the Raspberry Pi, mated to an RTL based SDR which will come as a "blank slate" for folks to load up with GNU Radio, DSD, OP25 or any other variety of free SDR software available if they wish. For additional money, paid software packages could be made available to download from the manufacturers that will work across a common set of hardware, meaning that you could purchase your scanner hardware from GRE or Radio Shack, download a P25 monitoring suite from Uniden and then add on a spectrum analyzer from AOR or a video decoder from iCOM or dozens of other possibilities. Maybe ACARS is your thing and the WinRadio people release something cool for ACARS monitoring that you'd like to try. Again, the sky's the limit and if everyone builds to the same basic SDR hardware, costs will come down. I think that'd be a win-win for everyone.

I could be wrong of course, but this is where I see the industry going and it would be a boon for hobbyists if it did.

-AZ
 

dupree617

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I've never said this here, but that just went over my head. But I do agree it will take a small computer to monitor future two-way radios I think.

Mike Dupree
 

radioman2001

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I have seen that but right now the only entity in my area that MAY even switch NXDN is the Railroad and I am not even sure it will ever happen. I know there are other Railroads that will or already have, they are just not in my region of the counrty. No Public Safety has any plans for it that I know of so the only thing I would want to listen to are trains and again, that may never come in my area. But just having one with the ability would be nice if it ever does.


MNRR is presently using IDAS for support services,and eventually safety. I doubt any agency will be using it anytime soon for RTC
 

KG4EMJ

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It would sure be nice to have an actual scanner that could monitor NXDN. The only people who are going to want to fool with a PC and decoding software and getting everything working properly are going to be your REALLY hard core hobbyists and enthusiasts, and there aren't hardly enough of those people around to keep the hobby alive forever.

I think Uniden or GRE needs to work on a scanner capable of listening to NXDN right out of the box. A lot of agencies in my state are using that solely now.
 

Markb

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The problem I see is whether or not the scanner manufacturers will actually come through with that and when. For at least the last 25 years, it's been a constant battle to keep up with current technology. The scanner companies are usually pretty far behind the curve in releasing a product. They also seem to limit the features so that we'll buy the next greatest thing they produce - they're a business, can't fault 'em for that. I don't believe that designing an SDR or "classic" scanner with every conceivable feature or decoding scheme is congruent with their business model. Not to mention if they did, it would probably price many people out of the market.
Call me hardcore, but shelling out $20 for an RTL stick and downloading some free software to listen to just about anything I want *right now* without a huge amount of difficulty is pretty cool.
Besides, nowadays, this hobby does require a certain amount of technical proficiency to be able to listen in most urban areas. To me, that's half the fun.
 

n0ypd

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This is suppose to be a hobby,but it's getting to complicated for my brain.It sure is weird how they dumb down the harm radio entrance requirements,but are making scanners more difficult to use.IMO.
 
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