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Old 07-13-2013, 2:21 PM
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Default Rebanding ?

What exactly does it mean that the 396XT is set up for rebanding? Does this mean that it is automatic or what? I have had to put in a Custom Band Plan when a system has been rebanded. I'm not complaining but I just need to know if this is SOP for everyone is this just me.... I have had this problem with the Indiana State System and right now with the Summit County 800 System in Ohio.
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Old 07-13-2013, 2:30 PM
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In the older 396T, the firmware did not support rebanding, and had to be updated. The XT models don't have this limitation - the firmware came with the necessary support out of the box

Put another way if you tried to put the custom table into an old 396T with original firmware, it wouldn't work, because the firmware does not know how to use that information to calculate the correct channels for use in rebanded systems. For a XT scanner, this is not an issue - the firmware already knows what to do when a custom table is entered

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Old 07-13-2013, 3:59 PM
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So you must add a Custom Table for a Rebanded System to work on the XT once it is Rebanded. I just want to make sure this is SOP like I asked in my original post.
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Old 07-13-2013, 4:13 PM
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Sometimes you need a table - if the system is a true P25 system with a 9600 baud CC, you don't need it, as the required information is contained in the control channel.

You also don't need it if ALL the frequencies in the system have a 0 in the fourth decimal - if any of them have a 5, and the system is an analog or mixed type (both analog and digital on the same system), then you will need to have a custom table

All of this applies to Motorola systems - EDACS systems don't need custom tables. You just need the new frequencies - and this is very important - in the correct Logical Channel Number (LCN) orger.

There are exceptions to the rule, unfortunately, and you need to check each area to insure you get the straight scoop. Case in point is the recently rebanded state of Delaware system. While they're entirely digital, they are not using a 9600 baud CC, so a custom table is required to properly track the system.

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Last edited by ka3jjz; 07-13-2013 at 4:16 PM..
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-13-2013, 4:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wv_mountaineer View Post
So you must add a Custom Table for a Rebanded System to work on the XT once it is Rebanded. I just want to make sure this is SOP like I asked in my original post.
Yes, you must add custom tables for rebanded Motorola 800 MHz systems.

The XT scanners are "reband ready", meaning they were initially designed with the firmware to accommodate rebanded systems right out of the box.

Nothing is "automatic". If it were, it would screw up systems that have not yet been rebanded by forcing them to use the rebanded tables.
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Old 07-13-2013, 5:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chauffeur6 View Post
Yes, you must add custom tables for rebanded Motorola 800 MHz systems.
<snip>
.
Not entirely true. Please read my response - there are exceptions to the rule

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-13-2013, 5:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ka3jjz View Post
Not entirely true. Please read my response - there are exceptions to the rule

Mike
Yes, Mike, I am fully aware of the exceptions and have personally explained them in great detail in quite a few of my posts going back a number of years.

The thing is...it doesn't hurt to add custom rebanding tables for systems that have been rebanded, regardless of whether there is a 0 or 5 in the fourth position to the right of the decimal point.

That bit of info primarily comes into play when someone is looking to see if an older non-rebandable scanner will be able to follow all voice channels on a rebanded system. It has very little relevance as far as answering the OP's question, so let's not complicate the issue.
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Old 07-13-2013, 5:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ka3jjz View Post
Sometimes you need a table - if the system is a true P25 system with a 9600 baud CC, you don't need it, as the required information is contained in the control channel.

You also don't need it if ALL the frequencies in the system have a 0 in the fourth decimal - if any of them have a 5, and the system is an analog or mixed type (both analog and digital on the same system), then you will need to have a custom table

All of this applies to Motorola systems
Slight correction:

For the Motorola Type II systems (not the true P25 9600 baud CC systems, as Mike has noted), the key is the fourth decimal place. However, the custom band plan is needed if any of the frequencies in the 851.0000 to <854.0000 have a zero in that #4 slot (i.e. 853.3750). If All of the frequencies in that range (851.0000 to <854.0000) have a five, then the custom plan is not needed.

Two systems from the DFW area for an example:

This rebanded system has eleven frequencies that are above 851.0000 abd below 854.0000. However, no custom band plan is required, as all of those frequencies have a five in the fourth decimal place.

On the other hand, this system requires the rebanding tables. It has one frequency, 853.4250, in the 851.0000 to <854.0000, that has a zero in the fourth decimal place. Unless the custom tables are used, the scanner will not fully track the system, tuning to an incorrect frequency when the 853.4250 voice channel is utilized.

And, no, it does not matter if the tables are present when not needed. The scanner will still track the system correctly.

The main difference that the presence of either a 5 or a zero in that fourth slot makes is whether an older scanner, that is not rebandable, is still usable on the system.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-13-2013, 5:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ka3jjz View Post
You also don't need it if ALL the frequencies in the system have a 0 in the fourth decimal - if any of them have a 5, and the system is an analog or mixed type (both analog and digital on the same system), then you will need to have a custom table
In fact, now that I read your post again...your information is actually incorrect.

Allow me to explain:

800 MHz frequencies that have a 5 in the fourth position to the right of the decimal point are from the original Motorola channel plan. Those are the frequencies that do not require a custom band plan, assuming that every voice frequency for a given system meets that standard.

Older scanners that are not capable of having custom band plan tables entered can still track these systems, due to the fact that the channel numbers for those frequencies has not changed pre or post rebanding.


Contrast that with the 800 MHz frequencies that have a 0 in the fourth position to the right of the decimal point, those are the new "post-rebanding" channels and do require a custom reband table.

Older scanners will not be able to track those voice channels due to the lack of the ability to program a custom band plan.


You had your information reversed, hope this clears things up for you!
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Old 07-13-2013, 5:34 PM
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That's what I get for trying to type fast. Thanks for straightening that out Steve and Chauffeur Mike
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Old 07-13-2013, 5:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chauffeur6 View Post
Yes, you must add custom tables for rebanded Motorola 800 MHz systems.
So as not to confuse the OP, with an 800 MHz system, as kz3jjz stated, NO Custom Table in the following instances:
1 - If the system is a 9600 baud True P25 System.
2 - If the 4th digit after the decimal point is a 5 in ALL of the frequencies.
3 - EDACS Systems.

You need the Custom Table in the following instances:
1 - If the system is a 3600 Baud P25 System.
2 - If the 4th digit after the decimal point in ANY of the frequencies is a 0.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-13-2013, 6:21 PM
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Unfortunately, the OP's question has already been confused because of all the technicalities introduced into this thread. Not everything needs to be overcomplicated, sometimes a simple answer can be given to a simple question, and the world will not end.

Bottom line, and the straightforward answer to what the OP actually wanted to know: Uniden XT scanners are "reband ready", there is nothing automatic that happens with regard to rebanded systems. If a Motorola 800 MHz system was rebanded, enter the custom band plan. Simple as that.
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Old 07-13-2013, 7:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ88 View Post
So as not to confuse the OP, with an 800 MHz system, as kz3jjz stated, NO Custom Table in the following instances:
1 - If the system is a 9600 baud True P25 System.
2 - If the 4th digit after the decimal point is a 5 in ALL of the frequencies.
3 - EDACS Systems.

You need the Custom Table in the following instances:
1 - If the system is a 3600 Baud P25 System.
2 - If the 4th digit after the decimal point in ANY of the frequencies is a 0.
Not exactly.

The frequencies to be concerned with are those in the range of 851.0000 to <854.0000 (greater than 851.0000 and less than 854.0000).

But as noted, the XT series was already "reband friendly' when released. While there have been firmware updates, they have been for other reasons, not to prepare the XT scanners for rebanded systems. The older, "T" series scanners do need the update, if a custom table will be required.
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Old 07-13-2013, 8:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiegtx View Post
Not exactly.

The frequencies to be concerned with are those in the range of 851.0000 to <854.0000 (greater than 851.0000 and less than 854.0000).
My bad for not clarifying that.
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Old 07-13-2013, 9:33 PM
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Default Wow.... now I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chauffeur6 View Post
Unfortunately, the OP's question has already been confused because of all the technicalities introduced into this thread. Not everything needs to be overcomplicated, sometimes a simple answer can be given to a simple question, and the world will not end.

Bottom line, and the straightforward answer to what the OP actually wanted to know: Uniden XT scanners are "reband ready", there is nothing automatic that happens with regard to rebanded systems. If a Motorola 800 MHz system was rebanded, enter the custom band plan. Simple as that.
Thanks for setting my post straight guys. I like the "Bottom Line" answer. How the heck do y'all know this stuff like you do? This is why I ask and y'all answer! I learned something and hope I retain this info somewhere within my brain.
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