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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2014, 12:02 PM
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This is definitely not something I wanted to hear.

This was going to be one of the main reasons for me to purchase this- to NOT manually power it on/off every time.

I'm going to assume it is because of the micro card deal because that will happen with the PSR800. It advises to never plug/unplug while unit is on. Although that is a slightly different scenario, I believe it falls into the same general issue, and it does not seem to be a good design.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2014, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuntEnvy View Post
This is definitely not something I wanted to hear.

This was going to be one of the main reasons for me to purchase this- to NOT manually power it on/off every time.

I'm going to assume it is because of the micro card deal because that will happen with the PSR800. It advises to never plug/unplug while unit is on. Although that is a slightly different scenario, I believe it falls into the same general issue, and it does not seem to be a good design.

Someone else had a concern about that a while ago, read this post, and Upman's post right below it.

http://forums.radioreference.com/uni...ml#post2073517

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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2014, 12:15 PM
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Still trying to duplicate this. As with other issues, you aren't going to see public posts from me on this matter until we've duplicated and determined a plan of action.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2014, 12:36 PM
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A picture is worth 1000 words and a video will have 24 of them every second. Let's see a video of the setup that shows this happening - that might provide Paul with some additional clues to help solve the mystery.

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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2014, 3:35 PM
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Someone earlier mentioned shutting off all the other radios/scanners but leaving the 536 turned on.
Has this been done yet and if so, was there any difference?
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2014, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdcomm View Post
Anyone else seeing this. 10 more installed today with same issue.
In one of your posts you mentioned that your vehicles have 2 batteries. It sounds like there is a voltage drop that might be causing this issue.

I wonder if you could wire the scanners to the battery switch so that when Battery A is selected the scanners actually connect to Battery B. This would prevent the voltage drop caused by the heavy current draw of the starter from affecting the scanners.

Alternately you could add a smaller battery (MC sized) to power the scanners. This would require some sort of charger circuit. Your guys would still have to remember to power down the scanners individually to allow the memory writes however.

Remember that these scanners are blurring the line between radios and computers. You would never just pull the plug on a computer, so don't on the scanner. Older scanners would not have a big problem with this but these are much more computer-like than them.

On my 996XT and BCT15X's in the car, as well as some of the various ham rigs I have had over the years I found that some settings were not retained when pulling the power by connecting the radio to the ignition switch, but if the radio was turned off under power the settings would be retained. This goes to the memory write issues that appear to be more apparent in the 536.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2014, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N9JIG View Post
In one of your posts you mentioned that your vehicles have 2 batteries. It sounds like there is a voltage drop that might be causing this issue.

I wonder if you could wire the scanners to the battery switch so that when Battery A is selected the scanners actually connect to Battery B. This would prevent the voltage drop caused by the heavy current draw of the starter from affecting the scanners.
Most trucks that have 2 batteries have them wired in parallel, so a selector switch would make no difference. At least that is the case for every diesel rig I have worked on and owned.

I would try to find some way to put an inline delay on the scanners. Find out if the problem is starting all the radios at the same time as starting the truck, or if it is just starting all the radios.

If it is the first one (which it sounds like it is), put a delay in so they will start 30 seconds after the starter relay as closed.

This seams like a simple fix to me, but the OP is not providing any information other then 'It doesn't work!!!"
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2014, 4:03 PM
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Default Video demonstrating the audio issue

http://youtu.be/Q4mUlFswPCU





I think the point is being missed here. We install 1,000's of radios per year in wreckers. NONE of the other radios / scanners have ever had this issue, including the BCD996XT. These wreckers sit in wait, listening to these receivers, most of the time with their engines off to conserve fuel. When they start their wreckers, the scanners loose audio. And as you can see, after having to turn off, then back on, all of your settings are gone. There is no way they will be able to re-manipulate all of theBCD536's driving down the road going to the call so they can continue listening.

Last edited by cmdcomm; 01-26-2014 at 4:29 PM.. Reason: New video
  #49 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2014, 5:18 PM
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I know UPMan is looking into this matter but as a user who has one installed in there vehicle I do have one question. When you started the vehicle I noticed your display flicker briefly. I also have my 536 installed in my Tahoe using a Fuse Tap to a constant 12vdc so I can operate the radio without turning on the ignition. When I start my vehicle the scanner display stays rock solid, no flicker. Do they all do that?
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2014, 6:49 PM
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I think Dan has the right answer. The radio's power is being cut when you start the vehicle. Find a way to make that not happen. Regardless of whether or not it worked with other scanners, it evidently doesn't work that way with this model.

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Old 01-26-2014, 7:00 PM
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How about a capacitor on the wiring to prevent the voltage drop?

I'm not too knowledgeable about the physics of circuits but wouldn't that work?
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Last edited by szron; 01-26-2014 at 7:02 PM.. Reason: King of typos strikes again
  #52 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2014, 7:53 PM
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Default BCD536HP Mobile Install Issues

It would have to be a large cap. If I have this issue I'll probably use a diode and small rechargeable 12v battery.
  #53 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2014, 8:20 PM
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Our ambulances had similar problems with the installed computers. Starting the engines would cause the computers to reboot. The solution the radio guys came up with was to add a battery just for the computers and radios.

I don't know if that's an option, but you might want to consider it. Ambulance battery systems have up to five batteries, depending on the configuration and chassis size. They also have battery isolators, which is another thing to consider. Motorola used to make a battery isolator just for two way radios, I don't know if they still do though.

Overall, I'm not sure that this is a problem that most of us will run in to if we are running one or two scanners in a more typical set up.
  #54 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2014, 9:02 PM
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Sounds like the radio battery needs isolation from the cranking battery.

In my Jeep Commander I have an extensive radio install and I have a Rubermaid storage box with 3 50AH AGM batteries in the back connected to the main battery by #4 wire and a Sure Power 1315 battery separator. When engine is off the batteries go below 12.8v they will unlink but when engine starts and main battery reaches 13.2 they link up and the radio batteries charge. The radio batteries are always charged and never used for cranking unless their is an emergency and the over ride switch is used.

Having two batteries in some of these trucks will not stop the radios from having severe voltage dips and surges, diesel engines take a lot of power to start, some high end cars are now adding auxiliary batteries for electronics.

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Last edited by dkf435; 01-26-2014 at 9:07 PM..
  #55 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2014, 9:23 PM
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Take a look at the Havis ChargeGuard. I bet it solves your problem. I have similar issues with other radios in a newer diesel Ford.

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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2014, 9:46 PM
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I've seen similar occurrences in various cpu controlled equipment mounted to vehicles in the past.

Doesn't matter how many batteries you have in a vehicle, fact is for a brief instant, you are effectively placing a short circuit across them when you first hit the vehicle's starter. It's not unusual for the battery terminal voltage to fall to 6v or even lower for a very brief instant until the starter armature starts turning. Even then, the terminal voltage may not exceed 10v until the starter is disengaged. If you have a DSO and look at the battery voltage under starting conditions, you will see the voltage spike down.

This is concerning if it turns out to be a common problem. It indicates to me that there has not been sufficient consideration given to external power supply voltage variations with insufficient isolation designed into the product between the 12v DC input and the various internal regulated supplies.

Such problems are not typically fixed with a firmware update. This usually requires the equipment to be hardware modified or as has been suggested already, a dedicated and isolated 12v power supply or a system that connects power to the equipment only after the vehicle has been started.

Regardless, as these SD based scanners are constantly reading/writing to the SD card, it stands to reason that problems will occur if the correct boot down/boot up procedures (switched on or off by the unit's power switch) aren't followed.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2014, 9:50 PM
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I'm still encouraging a load sequencer solution. These devices gradually power up electronic equipment so that there isn't a voltage drop when lots of things come on at the same time.

Kussmaul Electronics Co., Inc. Load Manager

They also have a benefit of shedding loads if the battery (or batteries) are getting low.
  #58 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2014, 12:55 AM
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If you have a separate battery and use a smart relay isolator you will not see the voltage drop on cranking unless you flip the switch to the boost mode to jump the main.. You start the vehicle and once the battery voltage rises on the starting battery it connects the second battery to start charging.

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Old 01-27-2014, 4:13 AM
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Beta Testing - Anyone??

The horse has bolted now!
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Last edited by Boatanchor; 01-27-2014 at 4:17 AM..
  #60 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2014, 11:17 AM
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FWIW / YMMV

For testing purposes I installed mine temporarily in a Ford F550 diesel and can duplicate the described issue nearly 100 percent of the time on start. 2013 F550 with the 6.7L Turbodiesel. Factory dual batteries. Looking at the power line on start there is a voltage sag in the 5 to 6 volt range followed immediately by a rapid spike to about 18volts before settling back to 14. There is a really noisy AC component in the power right on engine start as well.

For further testing I installed a HAVIS Chargeguard in the power line. As the chargeguard waits to turn on power to the controlled device(s) until a timed period after it sees the AC component from the alternator (thus letting it know the engine is running) the problem was eliminated. The power is cleaned up / stabilized by the time the chargeguard supplies it to the attached accessories.

This same truck and several others have both a Motorola MPR6550 and a XLT 5000 in it. The MPR6550 'locks' up half the time on start and the XLT 5k never has. Its a combination of power management and processors in the radios with the messy power in the diesel during start. Adding a filter / storage capacitor to the MPR power feed solves it's problem and probably would for the 536 as well (untested).

Tested the HP536 in a 2013 F350 Turbodiesel and saw the same lockup problem on start but not as consistently.
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