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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2012, 1:35 PM
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Default unknown conv.

171.0125 p25 nac of 3f8 enc.
170.725 p25 nac of 293 enc common nac.
172.6875 analog ct of 141.3
These have been active for quite sometime.
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Old 03-08-2012, 1:38 PM
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found in the salt lake county south end of the valley. forgot to add that.
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Old 03-08-2012, 2:57 PM
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172.6875 could be a VA Hosp, based on over uses across the country.

What does the traffic sound like ?

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Originally Posted by creators4 View Post
171.0125 p25 nac of 3f8 enc.
170.725 p25 nac of 293 enc common nac.
172.6875 analog ct of 141.3
These have been active for quite sometime.
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Old 03-08-2012, 3:10 PM
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i,ve been listening i heard traffic on 171.0125 sound like V.A in salt lake it was a mix of voice and enc. talkin about trespassing at the whalen buil
ding. writing this i can confirm it is V.A POLICE. they have phone patch also. anyone else in salt lake. here it also
172.6875 i,ve heard key up and little voice at all

Last edited by creators4; 03-08-2012 at 3:32 PM.. Reason: forgot stuff
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Old 03-09-2012, 1:45 PM
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Good work, creators4. I can also confirm your two VA catches are consistent with what I have observed. There is a lot on the 162-174 MHz federal band that has yet to be mapped by this hobby community, so I'm glad to see that you've done some work on this.

It frustrates me when other hobbyists sometimes say, "If all the traffic on a frequency is encrypted, the fact that it is in use is irrelevant". There is a lot of useful sigint information that can be gleaned, even if an audible voice cannot be demodulated, or an intelligible stream of data characters decoded. For one, I'd like to see someone closer to the VA scan and find another frequency using NAC 3F8. That would tell us the presently unknown VA Police input. (The input for that analog channel used by maintenance is 166.7125 BTW).

Having Ensign Peak blocking the path from my location to SLC has been a bit of a hindrance, especially in associating inputs with their output frequency. The fact that so many of these operations use the default NAC 293 also complicates matters. There's undoubtedly a lot I haven't caught yet, but here's my P-25 and analog 162-174 MHz lists:



163.7,,,
163.75,,,
163.95,,,
165.9,,,
166.1375,,001 NAC,
167.1625,,001 NAC,BATF
167.2125,,293 NAC,DHS
167.3125,,293 NAC,
167.3375,,293 NAC,
167.3625,,293 NAC,
166.4625,,,
167.4875,,293 NAC,
167.6625,,293 334?,
167.7125,,293 NAC,
167.7375,,293 NAC,
167.7625,,293 NAC,
167.9625,,001 NAC,
168.825,,293 NAC,in the past this was FBI A6 Ogden with input 163.1875
168.875,,293 NAC,
168.925,,293 NAC,in the past this was FBI A2 with input 162.95
169.55,,,
170.675,,,
170.7,,293 NAC,
170.725,,293 NAC,
170.75,,293 NAC
171.0125,,3F8 NAC,VA Police
171.9625,,,
172.9,169.3 input??,001 NAC,TSA
407.725,416.725 input,482 NAC,US Postal Inspectors

163.2375,,203.5 pl,"on way to traffic court, rangers? Escorting large equip big + lit cot"
164.7,,csq,school?
165.2375,166.4375 input,100.0 pl,Customs and Border Protection
168.125,164.125 input,110.9 pl,FS (Wasatch NF Primary)
168.65,,,"Forestry aircraft ""national"""
168.725,164.9375 input,,FS (Wasatch NF Logistics)
170.5125,163.025 input,,BLM
172.375,168.675 input,123.0 pl,FS (Uinta NF Logistics)
172.4,168.75 input,123.0 pl,FS (Uinta NF Primary)
172.6875,166.7125 input,141.3 pl,"maint crew, VA hospital?"
173.675,164.775 input,,BLM
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Last edited by kd7rto; 03-09-2012 at 1:48 PM..
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Old 03-09-2012, 3:51 PM
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IM using a grecom psr 500 and a optoelectronics aps 105 active pre selector
kd7rto should we put any of these conv. p25-enc in the data base or wait ? since there is both types of traffic.
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Old 03-09-2012, 4:50 PM
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That which you are confident is correct should be submitted. The VA has changed frequencies several times over the years, so it's good to keep an eye (ear?) on them, so that outdated information can be corrected. Same situation with the federal courthouse in downtown SLC.

I hope your combination works well for you. I tried putting an APS104 in front of a BC796D, used an IFR service monitor to verify tuning, and had terrible results. So many false squelch openings, even at max squelch, that the setup was worthless for range searches.

Now I use one of several receivers I have with strong front-ends to search, and I program any P-25 I find into my BC996XT for further analysis.
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Old 03-09-2012, 5:27 PM
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I will wait to submit anything to the data base. because of the P25-ENC on the freqs.
my set up work fine with me. I just have to move the aps 105 around. Not much overload if any.
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Old 03-10-2012, 8:32 AM
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Frustration ? Yup 10-04 on that one.
Nothing to listen to here anymore, move on - So no attempt is made to log the NAC or the Intercept.

As for a few of your notes:
164.7000 - could this be BLM in Richfield on Simplex, I know they have atleast 3 Repeaters and that Fishlake NF also has access to those Rptrs.

163.2375 203.5 - I have in my notes from someone last March who ID'd this as the Salt Lake County Sheriff - Cottonwood Canyons Car/Car

170.7500 $293 is likely the US Marshal - Court House Security [based on other National Reports]

Odd -all those former FBI [167 Mhz] now using $293

Nice Report. Have you also tried the 138-144/148-150.8 portion of the Fed bands?



Quote:
Originally Posted by kd7rto View Post
Good work, creators4. I can also confirm your two VA catches are consistent with what I have observed. There is a lot on the 162-174 MHz federal band that has yet to be mapped by this hobby community, so I'm glad to see that you've done some work on this.

It frustrates me when other hobbyists sometimes say, "If all the traffic on a frequency is encrypted, the fact that it is in use is irrelevant". There is a lot of useful sigint information that can be gleaned, even if an audible voice cannot be demodulated, or an intelligible stream of data characters decoded. For one, I'd like to see someone closer to the VA scan and find another frequency using NAC 3F8. That would tell us the presently unknown VA Police input. (The input for that analog channel used by maintenance is 166.7125 BTW).

Having Ensign Peak blocking the path from my location to SLC has been a bit of a hindrance, especially in associating inputs with their output frequency. The fact that so many of these operations use the default NAC 293 also complicates matters. There's undoubtedly a lot I haven't caught yet, but here's my P-25 and analog 162-174 MHz lists:



163.7,,,
163.75,,,
163.95,,,
165.9,,,
166.1375,,001 NAC,
167.1625,,001 NAC,BATF
167.2125,,293 NAC,DHS
167.3125,,293 NAC,
167.3375,,293 NAC,
167.3625,,293 NAC,
166.4625,,,
167.4875,,293 NAC,
167.6625,,293 334?,
167.7125,,293 NAC,
167.7375,,293 NAC,
167.7625,,293 NAC,
167.9625,,001 NAC,
168.825,,293 NAC,in the past this was FBI A6 Ogden with input 163.1875
168.875,,293 NAC,
168.925,,293 NAC,in the past this was FBI A2 with input 162.95
169.55,,,
170.675,,,
170.7,,293 NAC,
170.725,,293 NAC,
170.75,,293 NAC
171.0125,,3F8 NAC,VA Police
171.9625,,,
172.9,169.3 input??,001 NAC,TSA
407.725,416.725 input,482 NAC,US Postal Inspectors

163.2375,,203.5 pl,"on way to traffic court, rangers? Escorting large equip big + lit cot"
164.7,,csq,school?
165.2375,166.4375 input,100.0 pl,Customs and Border Protection
168.125,164.125 input,110.9 pl,FS (Wasatch NF Primary)
168.65,,,"Forestry aircraft ""national"""
168.725,164.9375 input,,FS (Wasatch NF Logistics)
170.5125,163.025 input,,BLM
172.375,168.675 input,123.0 pl,FS (Uinta NF Logistics)
172.4,168.75 input,123.0 pl,FS (Uinta NF Primary)
172.6875,166.7125 input,141.3 pl,"maint crew, VA hospital?"
173.675,164.775 input,,BLM
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Old 03-10-2012, 11:47 AM
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I do search the other fed bands also, nothing i can here. 138-144-148-150.8. I do also search 380-430 also.
I did ask unified police officer formerly salt county sherriff. they made the county sherriff. unified police now.
what radios he uses. they use. 7202 trunk.system I dont know who uses 163.2375 203.5 now i,ll keep a ear out.
168.828 p25 nac 293 active last night, a mix of p25 and enc.
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Old 03-10-2012, 1:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecps92 View Post
164.7000 - could this be BLM in Richfield on Simplex, I know they have atleast 3 Repeaters and that Fishlake NF also has access to those Rptrs.
What I know is that 170.5125 (163.025 in) and 173.675 (164.775 in) are used be the BLM throughout the state, multiple sites with different pl's. 164.1 was a repeater output in the past, with 163.025 in. Since the change, I have heard some simplex.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecps92 View Post
163.2375 203.5 - I have in my notes from someone last March who ID'd this as the Salt Lake County Sheriff - Cottonwood Canyons Car/Car
I've seen that listed as well, but I find it much more likely that US Forest Service rangers would be assigned to a federal frequency. Does anyone know if UPD vehicles assigned to canyon patrol have VHF radios?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecps92 View Post
170.7500 $293 is likely the US Marshal - Court House Security [based on other National Reports]
Has anyone in the group logged any close call hits in the area?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecps92 View Post
Have you also tried the 138-144/148-150.8 portion of the Fed bands?
I haven't heard any P-25 in the last few years, analog list follows:

138.925,,,past: DTMF present: warbled tone
139.0125,,127.3 pl,"DTMF ""giant voice and base siren system"""
139.15,148.825 input,100.0 pl,(unidentified military)
139.675,,DTMF,
140.65,,127.3 pl,0730 bugle/ wx warnings Camp Williams
141.125,143.1 input,146.2 pl,Camp Williams security
141.3625,,DTMF,
141.45,,csq,(unidentified military)
143.1125,,,
143.4,148.35 input,146.2 pl,Army MARS (net Thurs. 8:00 PM)
143.4125,,74.4 203.5 pl,Army MARS Francis Pk.
143.9875,148.65 input ,(141.3) 74.4,Army MARS (Old info)
148.0125,,,Army MARS packet
148.025,,203.5 pl,Dugway security ch8
148.125,143.55 input ,103.5 pl,CAP
148.15,143.7 input,118.8 pl,CAP
148.85,,203.5 pl,Dugway security ch12
149.6,,162.2 pl,Dugway Range Control ch14
149.725,,162.2 pl,Dugway Range Control
149.825,,162.2 pl,Douway Range Control ch1
149.875,,162.2 pl,Dugway Range Control
149.8375,,71.9 pl,Utah National Guard/Milard SO/CSEPP

I've also logged Milair using AM on:

138.15
138.3
138.375
138.425
138.725
138.75
138.95
142.7
143.75
143.875
148.425
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Last edited by kd7rto; 03-10-2012 at 1:11 PM..
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Old 03-10-2012, 1:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecps92 View Post
Odd -all those former FBI [167 Mhz] now using $293
293 appears to be a default, I strongly believe that multiple agencies in this area are using it, not just the FBI.

FWIW, here's my old, long outdated FBI list from before P-25:

167.5125,Simplex,167.9 pl,FBI A1
168.825,input unknown,167.9 pl,FBI A6 (Ogden)
168.925,162.95 input,167.9 pl,FBI A2
171.8,163.775 input,167.9 pl,FBI A3

A2 and A3 were very active. For a while, you would find about half of the traffic encrypted, and the other half in the clear. Setting the pl effectively filtered out the noise. Suddenly 100% was encrypted, which I surmised was the fleet being brought in for reprogramming to eliminate the ability of the user to select going in the clear.
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Old 03-11-2012, 7:59 PM
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Don't give up on the fed's! Here in the Philly area encryption has become very common place BUT that does not mean it is the rule.

On a weekly basis I log/record activity on a channel or net that is not encrypted because someone has a bad or incorrect code plug therefore the whole op goes clear P25.
The FBI D series channels are more often than not clear P25.
BATF TAC channels are often clear P25.
ICE can go either way.
DEA is usually Encrypted (except aircraft)
CBP/ICE aircraft ops are often clear (but ground units ENC.
The key is identifying the channels + NAC so you know who you are monitoring.

I suspect the feds have a presence on UCAN as they do on my states TRS (as well as many statewide systems) but they are generally ENC as key management on a SW system is easier.

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Old 03-12-2012, 12:04 AM
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Back in the days when SLC PD was on UHF, the FBI showed up using "900 series" callsigns right after a bank robbery in SLC. It may be likely that they still use those callsigns.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:38 AM
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Looking for the VA Police input freq,
I thought maybe the NTIA would have frequency pairs on VHF as they do on UHF, but that is not the case.
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/p...ns/4d_5_11.pdf (Page 4-189 states):
e . An agency may use any of their allotted frequencies in the range 162.0500-166.4875 MHz and
any of their allotted frequencies in the range 169.5125-173.9875 MHz to make up a single channel pair.
Note: You can view the UHF channeling plan on page 4-193.
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Old 03-12-2012, 6:36 AM
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VHF has [sadly] no band Split Standard for the Gov't bands, even for the Business/Public Safety VHF as well.

Yes, the newer channels in the UHF are supposed to be + 9mhz, but that is not the entire case as yet, as there are still plenty of legacy systems running out there.

Quote:
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Looking for the VA Police input freq,
I thought maybe the NTIA would have frequency pairs on VHF as they do on UHF, but that is not the case.
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/p...ns/4d_5_11.pdf (Page 4-189 states):
e . An agency may use any of their allotted frequencies in the range 162.0500-166.4875 MHz and
any of their allotted frequencies in the range 169.5125-173.9875 MHz to make up a single channel pair.
Note: You can view the UHF channeling plan on page 4-193.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:38 PM
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170.5125 R / 163.0250 in
103.5 - Lynn Rptr
123.0 - Windy Peak and Hansel Repeaters
136.5 - Delle Repeater
146.2 - Pilot Repeater also reported as 100.0 Hz
167.9 - Deep Creek Repeater

Quote:
Originally Posted by kd7rto View Post
What I know is that 170.5125 (163.025 in) and 173.675 (164.775 in) are used be the BLM throughout the state, multiple sites with different pl's. 164.1 was a repeater output in the past, with 163.025 in. Since the change, I have heard some simplex.
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Old 03-20-2012, 7:13 PM
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163.750000, P25, nac of 293 enc no voice yet?
170.750000 heard voice traffic leaving the ADC that all i heard, so its P25-ENC.
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Old 03-21-2012, 6:22 AM
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hmmm, 163.7500 Odd with $293 [Generic NAC] as that is usually an ICE or BP channel

As for 170.7500 $293 that is typically the USM - Federal Court House Security

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163.750000, P25, nac of 293 enc no voice yet?
170.750000 heard voice traffic leaving the ADC that all i heard, so its P25-ENC.
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