RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > HF / MW / LW Monitoring > Utility Listening


Utility Listening - Discussions regarding monitoring government, military, aircraft, ship, and other misc communications in the HF/MW/LF bands.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #61 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2018, 12:11 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 692
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmckenna View Post
But how many people (other than hobbyists) have access to a short wave radio, and understand how to use it? With propagation and atmospheric noise issues, issues in heavy urban areas and lack of universal acceptance (compared to am/fm) the value of WWV as an emergency notification source is limited.
I'd think that there are many more NOAA capable radios out there in the hands of the public. NOAA is already a well established source of emergency alerts.
I was referring to Government uses more than civilians. Keep the transmitters up and running, and come up with an accessory use for government comm's (perhaps digital transmissions). In the meantime, the stations would still be on the air for SWLs, Hams, and whoever else uses them for whatever reason the rest of the time.

Because if the big one hits, a lot of the internet, satellite, etc. may not be working perfunctorily.

And NOAA is dependent on the power grid, also. The transmitters could lose power. Especially during a massive earthquake, EMP, or volcanic activity. FEMA estimates that during the coming Juan De Fuca 9 pointer, everything west of I-5 will basically be 'toast'. That includes powerlines.

In situations like that, governmental use of HF might be helpful. Like I said, the Military doesn't use HF just for fun. It's a back up system.

Of course, all that I'm saying will mean nothing to the powers that be. They will do whatever they do. It's nice to speculate, though.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #62 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2018, 5:34 AM
jonwienke's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 8,884
Default

WWV is just as dependent on the power grid as NOAA stations. Assuming similar levels of disaster preparedness, a network of multiple transmitters is going to be harder to kill completely than a single "all the eggs in one basket" site.
__________________
Gone camping.
Reply With Quote
  #63 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2018, 1:01 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Hammond, IN
Posts: 1,620
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KK4JUG View Post
I never knew you could buy your own cesium clock. That's got to be the epitome of gadget freakery.
My friend W9CTO has two of them in his shop. They are a requirement whenever he calibrates service equipment and tags it with a NIST-traceable Certificate of Calibration and sticker.

I was visiting with him a few weeks ago and he was working on three of them he'd been sent to repair and calibrate. His services don't come cheaply either. He charges $650 just for an annual calibration...

Being quite a bit poorer, I only have a single 10 MHz rubidium standard for my hobby shop...
__________________
Bill
N4GIX - Ham / WQWU626 - GMRS
VV-898, TK-840(N), 2xTYT-7800, 2xUV5R v2+, HP1, BCD436HP, TMV7A, Ritron RRX-450 Repeater, MD-380, XPR7550, 2xCS800, Bridgecom BCR-40U Repeater, Elecraft KX3 + PX3

Last edited by N4GIX; 08-18-2018 at 1:18 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #64 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2018, 2:45 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by N4GIX View Post

Being quite a bit poorer, I only have a single 10 MHz rubidium standard for my hobby shop...
Beats the heck out of my sundial !

(Sorry, I couldn't resist. It made me think of the scene in the movie Jaws, where they're on the boat, comparing scars.)
Reply With Quote
  #65 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2018, 5:01 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Hammond, IN
Posts: 1,620
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bharvey2 View Post
Beats the heck out of my sundial !

(Sorry, I couldn't resist. It made me think of the scene in the movie Jaws, where they're on the boat, comparing scars.)
No problem with some humor! Actually I don't use it to "tell time" so much as use it to "set timing" on my Aeroflex IFR-1200 Super S service monitor as it provides a dead accurate 10 MHz reference signal. This guarantees that anything I align will be ~0.002 ppm accurate.
__________________
Bill
N4GIX - Ham / WQWU626 - GMRS
VV-898, TK-840(N), 2xTYT-7800, 2xUV5R v2+, HP1, BCD436HP, TMV7A, Ritron RRX-450 Repeater, MD-380, XPR7550, 2xCS800, Bridgecom BCR-40U Repeater, Elecraft KX3 + PX3
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #66 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2018, 5:13 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by N4GIX View Post
No problem with some humor! Actually I don't use it to "tell time" so much as use it to "set timing" on my Aeroflex IFR-1200 Super S service monitor as it provides a dead accurate 10 MHz reference signal. This guarantees that anything I align will be ~0.002 ppm accurate.
I figured as such. I've got a few scopes, signal generators and various other test/service equipment but alas, no service monitor. Radio has always been a hobby, not a business so I've had no need for one. I can be a bit envious though!
Reply With Quote
  #67 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2018, 10:45 AM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Hammond, IN
Posts: 1,620
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bharvey2 View Post
I figured as such. I've got a few scopes, signal generators and various other test/service equipment but alas, no service monitor. Radio has always been a hobby, not a business so I've had no need for one. I can be a bit envious though!
These days I use my equipment to keep my fellow hams' and my own radios in prime condition. It's more of an extension of my hobby than a business...

When I sold my GE Service Station back in the late eighties, all of the tools and service equipment went with the sale. I've since slowly gathered together replacement equipment as available and needed. Most of it I've obtained by good old-fashioned "horse trading."
__________________
Bill
N4GIX - Ham / WQWU626 - GMRS
VV-898, TK-840(N), 2xTYT-7800, 2xUV5R v2+, HP1, BCD436HP, TMV7A, Ritron RRX-450 Repeater, MD-380, XPR7550, 2xCS800, Bridgecom BCR-40U Repeater, Elecraft KX3 + PX3
Reply With Quote
  #68 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2018, 8:25 AM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by N4GIX View Post
These days I use my equipment to keep my fellow hams' and my own radios in prime condition. It's more of an extension of my hobby than a business...

When I sold my GE Service Station back in the late eighties, all of the tools and service equipment went with the sale. I've since slowly gathered together replacement equipment as available and needed. Most of it I've obtained by good old-fashioned "horse trading."
Well, there's my problem: No horses!

I go to the local swap meets every once in a while but don't recall ever seeing a service monitor. Maybe I'm going too late or they're in the vendors "private reserve". I do have a few service manuals for some older radios so I guess that's a start.
Reply With Quote
  #69 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2018, 5:15 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 692
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonwienke View Post
WWV is just as dependent on the power grid as NOAA stations. Assuming similar levels of disaster preparedness, a network of multiple transmitters is going to be harder to kill completely than a single "all the eggs in one basket" site.
If they were to be used in cases of national disaster, it only stands to reason they would have diesel generators, as many key MW stations across the country do (under a Federal Government emergency plan). The WWV transmitters already cover the country, they could be put to some use.

Diesel generators for radio facilities are not uncommon. The place where I used to work even had one. Many key cell towers apparently have them also.

RE: NOAA stations: they may or may not have the generators, but their feed comes via the internet, or other relays, which may be down after a 9 pointer.

Last edited by Boombox; 08-20-2018 at 7:02 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #70 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2018, 7:54 AM
AB4BF's Avatar
Member
  Shack Photos
Shack photos
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West of North
Posts: 355
Default

I'll let the president of our club give this information. Both petitions MUST be signed to make them work in this case. These are White House petitions that must have a valid e-mail address.

"Many of you are aware of the plans to discontinue funding for WWV which is a radio station that broadcasts time and frequency information 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. There are millions of listeners as well as receivers throughout the entire world that use the broadcast to maintain time and frequency standards. This service is critical to an unfathomable number of operations worldwide. You may learn more about WWV and WWVH by visiting https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-fr...o-stations/wwv

Below is information regarding two petitions to help secure/maintain funding for this service, both with links to the respective petition. Both petitions must be signed and signed using a valid email address so the petition signature can be verified and must be signed by September 15, 2018. If you so desire, you may sign both petitions and share this information with others so they may also sign the petitions."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...tions-wwv-wwvh

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...radio-stations

You can also get information from Wikipedia about WWV and associated time signal transmissions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWV_(radio_station)

Here's what ARRL has to say:

NIST FY 2019 Budget Would Eliminate WWV and WWVH

One more thing, please contact your two senators and congress person to help facilitate this.

Thanks,
AB4BF

Last edited by AB4BF; 09-03-2018 at 8:05 AM.. Reason: my r doesn't work sometimes...
Reply With Quote
  #71 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2018, 10:01 AM
   
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1
Default

Given the pitiful progress of signatures on those petitions they themselves might be used a reason to shutoff WWV.

Hams are not the only ones that have bought "atomic" devices. Maybe a strong effort on social media is in order to get the rest of the population involved.
Reply With Quote
  #72 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2018, 1:57 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lancaster, CA
Posts: 500
Default

From the article at SWLing:
"UPDATE: I’ve received a number of questions about Fort Collins-based station WWVB and if it would also be included in the closures. As the budget states, it includes: “the shutdown of NIST radio stations in Colorado and Hawaii.” At the budget’s current iteration, this implies all NIST radios stations including WWVB."

WWVB is still used to update the time on over tens of millions of wall clocks, desk clocks and watches. This is not a function that can easily be replaced by GPS receivers.

https://swling.com/blog/2018/08/nist...-wwv-and-wwvh/
Reply With Quote
  #73 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2018, 2:40 PM
KK4JUG's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: GA, AL, TX, OK, KS, AR, NC, or MI
Posts: 1,745
Default

Both my Citizen and Casio watches will become Timex watches if they decide to shut down the network, Most of the clocks in my house are "atomic." It will end up being a big waste of money.
__________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a vet.
Reply With Quote
  #74 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2018, 12:46 PM
riverrat373's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Washington State
Posts: 82
Default

What happens if we have a major EMF event from either the sun or other reasons? It would be much faster and easier to get WWV back on the air than all the GPS satellites!
Reply With Quote
  #75 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2018, 12:48 PM
KK4JUG's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: GA, AL, TX, OK, KS, AR, NC, or MI
Posts: 1,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by riverrat373 View Post
What happens if we have a major EMF event from either the sun or other reasons? It would be much faster and easier to get WWV back on the air than all the GPS satellites!
Not to worry. Those things happen to other people (or galaxies).
__________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a vet.
Reply With Quote
  #76 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2018, 3:37 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by riverrat373 View Post
What happens if we have a major EMF event from either the sun or other reasons? It would be much faster and easier to get WWV back on the air than all the GPS satellites!
It seems that planning ahead isn't "en vogue" anymore.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 5:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2015 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions