RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > U.S. Regional Radio Discussion Forums > Virginia Radio Discussion Forum


Virginia Radio Discussion Forum - Forum for discussing Radio Information in the State of Virginia.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2009, 11:33 PM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 378
Default HB 1955, 1659, 1769 - VA Mobile Communications Use

Mobile Amateur Radio in Virginia....the future is curently pending.... now... not tommorrow, is the time to contact your local representatives!

098528618

HOUSE BILL NO. 1955
Offered January 14, 2009
Prefiled January 13, 2009
A BILL to amend the Code of Virginia by adding a section numbered 46.2-1078.1, relating to use of wireless telecommunications devices while operating a motor vehicle.
----------
Patron-- Mathieson
----------
Referred to Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety
----------
Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia:

1. That the Code of Virginia is amended by adding a section numbered 46.2-1078.1 as follows:

46.2-1078.1. Restricted use of mobile telephone and other wireless electronic telecommunications devices.

No person shall use a mobile telephone or other wireless electronic telecommunications device while operating a moving motor vehicle on any public highway in the Commonwealth unless such mobile telephone or other wireless electronic telecommunications device is equipped with a hands-free accessory.

The provisions of this section shall not apply to the following:

1. Emergency use of a mobile telephone, including calls to 911 or 311, a hospital, an ambulance or other emergency medical services provider, a fire department, or a law-enforcement agency;

2. Use of a mobile telephone by law-enforcement and emergency personnel or by a driver of an authorized emergency vehicle, acting within the scope of official duties; or

3. Initiating or terminating a telephone call, or turning the telephone on or off.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...091+sum+HB1955

__________________________________________________ ________

SEE ALSO
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...091+ful+HB1659
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...091+sum+HB1769

Last edited by kf4uel; 01-19-2009 at 11:38 PM..
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2009, 11:11 AM
ChartofVirginia's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 23
Default

Well, you can say we begin and end a "CALL" every time we transmit or receive with a two-way radio device as we do not continue with a transmission after we unkey

This would stay within the realm of the law listed in the lower allowable subtitles

CoV
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2009, 11:12 AM
ChartofVirginia's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 23
Smile

And listening is handsfree
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2009, 4:00 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Dumfries, VA
Posts: 369
Default

I think this is a great law for ONLY cell phones.
People are such idiots when talking on their phones they drive slower and get in the way often making traffic slow down.
They need to amend the wording and change it from wireless communication devices to cellular phones.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2009, 12:20 AM
K9DUO's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Norfolk, Va
Posts: 149
Default

I dont think a ham radio is a "wireless electronic device" is it? Mine is WIRED to the car battery, and WIRED to an outside antenna.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2009, 3:14 AM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 1,199
Default

It's a slippery slope from a handheld cell phone to a handheld microphone. Next it'll be CB radios, GPS's & automotive audio. Accidents and erratic driving already carry penalties regardless of the cause.

I'm not interested in being ticketed by an LEO who is playing with a myriad of wireless devices while pursuing me. If anyone would like to storm the committee with torches and pitchforks, count me in.

73/Allen (N4JRI)
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2009, 7:52 AM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: In a valley that only a few know where it is
Posts: 547
Default

Hi Folks,

I too would be interested in any visits to the committee on this possible piece of legislation.

Any volunteers to keep a watch on it?

73
de
chris
kq4z
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2009, 11:58 PM
K9DUO's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Norfolk, Va
Posts: 149
Default

I would hope our leaders would realize the impact if they made it illegal to talk on a radio while driving. It would affect a lot more than ham radio operators. There are so many vehicles out there with a radio of some sort---VDOT trucks, delivery trucks, taxi cabs, buses, public works trucks. The list goes on and on. But I wouldnt put it past them to pass a law, and then go "Uh oh". No one said they had to think first.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2009, 7:45 AM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 378
Default

Dear ____<insert Congressman>____,

I am writing you to voice my strong opposition to _____<insert bill>_______.
These recently introduced bill(s) limit the use of cellular phones and “mobile telecommunications devices”. My concern is that there is no exemption for Amateur Radio operators and their associated equipment.

Amateur Radio operators have contributed valuable contributions to society including valuable emergency communications, this most recently spotlighted in the total collapse of New Orleans’s communications networks during and after hurricane Katrina. Amateur Radio operators provided exemplary communications support for the city. Many of the operators volunteered, traveling from states across the nation. It would be impracticable to regulate the use of their mobile equipment in any state.

The federal government via the FCC licenses amateur Radio operators alongside state, county, and local emergency service responders as well as state agencies such as the department of transportation and other state services. Allowing any of these bill(s) to pass would cause these users to be in violation of state law as well. I therefore ask you to ensure that mobile radio users are exempted from these bill(s) if allowed to pass.

It is important to remember that the hobby and volunteer service of any amateur radio operator relies heavily on the ability to use communications equipment while mobile in a vehicle. Almost all communications gear in this industry is designed for mobile use, including handheld radios. Equipment used stationary in buildings is usually mobile equipment augmented by power supplies. Furthermore if Amateur Radio Operators are restricted to hands-free devices the practical application of using communications gear while mobile would be hindered and possibly made dangerous. Mobile radio operators have used radio devices since the early day of radio without any problems or any laws to restrict their usage. Restricting Amateur Radio to hands-free devices is not an option.

With the broad implications and to prevent confusion with neighboring states, I ask you to have the above bill(s) modified to allow unrestricted amateur radio use by the driver of a vehicle while the vehicle is in motion. Furthermore, for the sake of the industry and related services I ask that the restrictions outlined in the above bill(s) apply to paid subscriber cellular telephone services only, completely exempting all other communications.

For the mentioned bill(s) if modifications cannot be made I ask you to vote against these bill(s). I understand the importance of highway safety, however the vague nature of these bill(s) jeopardizes Amateur Radio.

Sincerely,

Last edited by kf4uel; 01-22-2009 at 10:31 AM.. Reason: Any State
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2009, 9:46 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Charlottesville
Posts: 2,091
Default

Thanks for the letter Mike. I will get it out this weekend. I saw in the paper the bill passed the Transportation Committee and is going to the full Senate for a vote.

"Hands-free" bills have had a hard time in years past getting past the committee stage so this could be trouble unless enough state senators are made aware of what they are passing.
__________________
"Freedom has ceased to be a birthright; it has come to mean whatever we are still permitted to do." Joe Sobran
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2009, 2:09 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 738
Default

Here is the vote from the Senate Transportation Committee:

"SB 874 Mobile telephone and other wireless electronic devices; use of hands-free accessory while driving.

01/22/09 Senate: Reported from Transportation with substitute (10-Y 5-N)

YEAS--Miller, Y.B., Houck, Marsh, Watkins, Puckett, Blevins, Deeds, Ticer, Petersen, Miller, J.C.--10.

NAYS--Newman, Wagner, McDougle, Cuccinelli, Smith--5.

ABSTENTIONS--0."
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2009, 2:42 PM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 378
Default

thanks tuttleje I was just getting ready to post, it looks like drivers for hire got exempted with the committee substitute printed 093855336-S1

The provisions of this section shall not apply to any professional driver. For purposes of this section, "professional driver" means an individual who is engaged as a regular operator of and who is actually operating a vehicle that normally carries passengers or property for compensation.

Theres 4 of em One in the Senate and 3 others in the House

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?091+sum+SB874
http://http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?091+sum+HB1659
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...091+sum+HB1955
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...091+sum+HB1769

Last edited by kf4uel; 01-23-2009 at 2:55 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2009, 5:52 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 738
Default

I would suggest that you call your delegate. Today, I talked to representatives from three different delegates' offices and they had not heard of the problem involving amateur radio. Apparently, they are not reading the emails.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2009, 10:28 AM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 738
Default

Here is the "canned" response I received from Rosalyn R. Dance about HB1769:

Thank you for writing to express your opinion on the language of HB 1769. I will certainly consider your position when acting upon this issue. I have received several emails regarding additional amendments to this bill and I intened to take each concern very seriously. Thank you very much for taking the time to contact me with your suggestions. Please feel free to contact me at anytime.

Sincerely,
Rosalyn R. Dance

Obviously, she is not listening. I suggest you call and email her:
(804) 698-1063 email: DelRDance@house.virginia.gov
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2009, 1:58 PM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: In a valley that only a few know where it is
Posts: 547
Default

Another typical response from a brain dead representative.

It's not only ham radio that is in jeopardy. Taxi cab drivers, tow truck drivers, semi-truck drivers, etc etc.

Hopefully someone can reach out to a representative with a lick of common sense that will listen and help tweak this piece of legislation before it makes it to the floor for a vote.

73
de
chris
kq4z
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2009, 4:56 PM
trainman111's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 1,018
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kq4z View Post

It's not only ham radio that is in jeopardy. Taxi cab drivers, tow truck drivers, semi-truck drivers, etc etc.

73
de
chris
kq4z
It looks like it IS just ham radio in jeopardy. Take a look at the very last paragraph of exemptions...
Bill Tracking - 2009 session > Legislation
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2009, 8:25 PM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 378
Default

Lets hit up this poll, Richmond Sunlight 2009 Mobile telephone and other wireless electronic devices; use of hands-free accessory while driving. (SB874) VOTE No to indicate you do not support the current bills w/o modification.

Also see: http://conview.state.va.us/whosmy.nsf/main?openform to find out who to contact

Last edited by kf4uel; 01-26-2009 at 8:31 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2009, 8:49 AM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: In a valley that only a few know where it is
Posts: 547
Default

It's Me Again,

Did my part by taking the poll and sent my delegate (Joannou), senator (Quayle) and the Governor the following note:

I am writing you to voice my opposition to House Bill 1955 and it's associated legislation in it's current form. This bill and it's associated legislation limit the use of cellular phones and "mobile telecommunications devices". My concern is that there is no exemption for mobile amateur radio operation(s).

With innovation and knowledge radio amateurs have helped on numerous occasion to provide communications during times of emergency. One of the most recent events to highlight the benefits of mobile amateur radio communication was hurricane Katrina.
Many of these "hams" as they are called traveled from across the nation to provide assistance. Mobile use of amateur radio equipment permitted these people to coordinate their efforts while enroute. Restricting their operations while mobile could of delayed their efforts.

Another important example of mobile amateur radio operation are storm spotters. Storm spotters are amateur radio operators that are trained by the National Weather Service to go out and observe weather conditions. They observe during times of threatening weather and activate "Skywarn" radio networks that report via amateur radio to the National Weather Services offices throughout the Commonwealth.

Even though most radio amateurs are not paid public servants please understand that amateur radio operators quite frequently are called upon to serve the public and their ability to use communications equipment while operating mobile is at times essential to public safety.

I respectfully ask you to have this bill and all associated legislation modified to permit unrestricted amateur radio use by the driver of a vehicle while the vehicle is in motion. In addition I ask that the restrictions outlined in this and all accompanying legislation apply to paid subscriber cellular telephone services only, completely exempting all other communications.

Respectfully Submitted,

Ragnar Dannesjkold

Last edited by RagnarD; 01-27-2009 at 8:54 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2009, 9:41 AM
topcop1833's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 163
Default hate to stir the pot....

I don’t see too many people talking about the other side. So here it goes.
A previous post spoke to how poorly people drive when talking on a cell phone. I completely agree. A cell phone has become a convenience, which some have interoperated as a necessity. There are very few things in life that a driver needs to discuss going down the road at 35 mph or more. It is not hard to pull into the gas station, say your piece, and get back on the road. And it’s not just talking, now there is emails, texting, and who knows what else on these phones. Let me just say, I'm guilty of it, I've preached on it, and I'm a total hypocrite.
So you had to know this was coming.... What is the difference between a ham radio operator jaw jacking on his way home any different than a cell phone user? I've listened a number of repeaters on my home, and I've yet to hear any conversations that had to happen right then. I feel the same concept I mentioned above applies to ham radio. Pull over, or wait until you get home. You are just as distracted, diverting your attention from the road, and talking about who knows what.
I can count a few times where I've had to look down at the radio, change the freq or talkgoup I was on, only to look up and realizing I had to correct the vehicle. In the back of my mind I'm thinking "oops” and kicking myself at the same time. I'm not saying public safety is better, just relaying the same concept. I'm willing to bet some of you have done the same with either a phone or a radio (or laptop, XM, GPS, ect).
First, let me say I am a ham, and I have great respect for what the amateur community does (RACES/ARES). I work for VDEM, and have contact with hams on a daily basis, the work that is done for our EOC and the local EOCs is very much appreciated. I will concede that this is my only interaction with hams, and there may be other volunteer actions that I am aware of. With that in mind, my post is directly related to what I have experienced. I just don't see how having a dual bander in your car is any different than a cell phone.

If you wish to PM me, I'll give you my number and we can talk anytime.

Last edited by topcop1833; 01-27-2009 at 9:53 AM.. Reason: horrific spelling errors
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2009, 11:06 AM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 738
Default

While I agree that the use of cell telephones is a huge distraction to drivers, the fact that the General Assembly is excluding "Commercial radios" show their intent to not exclude all "wireless devices" from moving vehicles. ....so why exclude amateur radio?

The same hazard argument could hold true for the use of radios/mobile terminals in police vehicles. I spent 34 years in law enforcement at the local and then federal level. I can personally attest that the use of a radio in a moving vehicle can be a hazard. However, you must weigh the benefit against the danger.

The FCC has already demonstrated their support for mobile use of amateur radio (see below). If Virginia attempts to restrict the use of amateur radio in a moving vehicle, it will be overturned by the FCC. Again, it will be a waste of your tax dollars in an attempt by Virginia to defend a law that should not have been passed as it is currently written.

From FCC PR Docket 91-36, the FCC addresses the federal preemption of state and local laws concerning amateur use of transceivers in vehicles.

"The strong federal interest in the preservation and advancement of the amateur service is also demonstrated by Congress's recent recognition of the goals of the amateur service in a "Sense of Congress" provision in which Congress strongly encouraged and supported the amateur service.30 Congress therein directed all Government agencies to take into account the valuable contribution of amateurs when considering actions affecting the amateur radio service.31 We believe that the strong federal interest in supporting the emergency services provided by amateurs cannot be fully accomplished unless amateur operators are free to own and operate their stations to the fullest extent permitted by their licenses and are not unreasonably hampered in their ability to transport their radio transmitting stations across state and local boundaries for purposes of transmitting and receiving on authorized frequencies. Indeed, as a result of advances in technology making smaller, lighter weight radios commercially available, the Commission has expressly amended its rules to facilitate and encourage unrestricted mobile amateur operations. As we noted in a recent rule making proceeding to modify the rules governing the amateur radio service,

In the age of the microprocessor and the integrated circuit [amateur] equipment is highly portable. It is common for amateur operators to carry hand-held transceivers capable of accessing many local repeaters in urban areas and also capable of reasonably good line-of-sight communication. It appears that the concept of fixed station operation no longer carries with it the same connotation it did previously. For this reason, we propose to delete current rules that relate to station operation away from the authorized fixed station location."

While the FCC opinion was regarding the use of amateur radios that can receive police frequencies in vehicles , the intent is clear when the FCC stated:

"significant limitation on amateurs operating rights runs counter to the express policies of both Congress and the Commission to encourage and support amateur service operations, including mobile operations, and impermissibly encroaches on federal authority over amateur operators.35 It conflicts directly with the federal interest in amateur operators being able to transmit and receive on authorized amateur service frequencies."

"For these reasons, we find it necessary to preempt state and local laws that effectively preclude the possession in vehicles or elsewhere of amateur service transceivers by amateur operators merely on the basis that the transceivers are capable of reception on public safety, special emergency, or other radio service frequencies, the reception of which is not prohibited by federal law.37 We find that, under current conditions and given the types of equipment available in the market today, such laws prevent amateur operators from using their mobile stations to the full extent permitted under the Commission's Rules and thus are in clear conflict with federal objectives of facilitating and promoting the Amateur Radio Service"

As a consequence of these changes, the rules now expressly authorize amateur service operation "at points where the amateur service is regulated by the FCC," that is, at fixed and mobile locations throughout the United States."

The bottom line is that the FCC has indicated their strong support of the use of amateur radio in vehicles. Any law that is passed by Virginia that restricts the use of amateur radio in a vehicle will be overturned by the FCC....so why pass it?

Last edited by tuttleje; 01-27-2009 at 11:32 AM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 6:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2015 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions