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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2009, 7:53 PM
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From what I have read of the Motorola documentation on rebanding:

- the radio must be a newer model capable of understanding rebanding and with enough memory to hold a larger codeplug

- the codeplug is setup with 2 sets of control channels; 1 pre- and 1 post- rebanding

- the codeplug also has 2 sets of frequencies for whatever form of FAILSOFT it uses; again one each for pre- and post- rebanding

If the radio detects from the control channel that it is rebanded then it uses the rebanded info for failsoft. The control channel it basically searches all the channels entered (pre- and post-) until it finds a valid control channel data. That is why Motorola suggests you always put the reband control channels in the list first so it will find the rebanded channel.

What the radio techs have been doing for the last several months is a combination of updating firmware and loading the new codeplugs with both sets of information in them. Tuesday they did the mountain top and other site work to change the affected channels and load new information into the system controllers. Among the changes was one of the control channel frequencies changed.

What I don't understand is the voice channel business. All along I have understood that when a system has been rebanded the system will use the new FCC channel designators. Since a Motorola trunking system assigns talkgroups using these channel numbers your scanner would have to be able to understand the new FCC channel designators in order to follow or track the voice traffic.

Therefore I would expect the old PRO-2053 to be able to receive the control channel but then be unable to follow the voice conversations since all the channel numbers have changed even when the actual frequencies did not.

For example, prior to rebanding if a radio was told to go to voice channel 299 that would have meant to listen to 858.4625. After rebanding, channel 299 is actually 855.7125. So in this case since Roanoke is still using 858.4625 the radio would now have to be told to go to channel 409 instead of 299 to end up on the same frequency. That's fine as long the radio knows to use a different list of channel numbers to determine the correct frequency. That is what the custom tables for the GRE scanners is all about. What I don't understand is why my older scanner which doesn't have this ability isn't being told to go to channel 409 and ending up on the wrong frequency?

I am pretty sure all the rebanding work in Roanoke is supposed to be finished. It just isn't working the way I expect.

Can somebody explain what I am missing? I have a PRO-2096 setup with Win96 to use the custom rebanded tables and a PRO-2053 that isn't. Yet both are ending up on the same frequency.

John
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2009, 8:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdralleiii View Post

Also, John, what details do you have about the digital system? I directly asked a county employee (affiliated with the upgrade process) yesterday and was told that nothing had been decided yet. The current radios are not APCO25 compliant so all new equipment will have to be purchased. I'm interested to hear more!
I am not sure who you asked.... new XTL2500 mobile and XTS2500/XTS5000 portables have been showing up in county vehicles for about 8 months now. They are all capable of operating in P25 mode. The county did have some older XTL/XTS equipment around that wasn't flashed for P25 but it is supposed to be flash upgraded as part of the process.

Emergency Radio System Upgrade

The city on the other hand, decided not to go digital at this time. However according to a recent Roanoke Times article the Roanoke City Fire-EMS Department received a $700K grant to purchase new radios that would be compatible with the digital system the county is installing. Like the radios the county has bought and been installing, these new radios will be compatible with both the old analog system (city) and new digital system (county).

I don't think any of the radios in the city or county have been programmed for the new system yet but they should be capable of working on it when they are.

I understand the main reason the digital system is not already installed is the county wanted to complete the rebanding project prior to starting most of the work for the new system due to limited resources. So if rebanding is done, the work on the digital system can begin. I heard the plan is to go live on the new system sometime this fall.

John
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Old 03-26-2009, 9:29 PM
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Originally Posted by John View Post
Can somebody explain what I am missing? I have a PRO-2096 setup with Win96 to use the custom rebanded tables and a PRO-2053 that isn't. Yet both are ending up on the same frequency.

John
My bet is they may be simulcasting both old and new for a spell.
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Old 03-27-2009, 10:09 PM
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Thanks for the info John. Much appreciated.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2009, 11:04 PM
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Please Dis-regard.

Last edited by victor46; 04-03-2009 at 11:32 PM.. Reason: Found issue.
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Old 04-10-2009, 9:38 AM
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I have my 246t and I am still getting the city without any changes. Was the city rebanded or just the county?
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Old 04-11-2009, 7:51 AM
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Both City and County (and Vinton) are on the same system so when they "rebanded" all were affected. In reality, they didn't do the complete rebanding... all they did is change one control channel (from 860.9625 to 857.1625) and some of the voice channels. If your scanner is programmed with just the control channels then all you have to do is change this one frequency. If you don't you won't hear the system on the days it uses this control channel. Generally the system changes control channel every 24 hours so if you don't change you will likely not hear the system one out of every 4 days.

John
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:22 PM
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Smile Uniden 396T Firmware Upgrade Reband Question for Roanoke

Yesterday I bit the bullet and after the anticipated various Uniden website navigations I successfully updated my 996T to version 3.02.0 that supports among other changes rebanding. I do not have a 396T which I believe does not contain one or more features incorporated in the 996T. A friend in Roanoke has asked me to apply the 3.02.0 firmware update for rebanding to his 396T and 996T. Like a fool I agreed to do it. I look forward to doing Uniden firmware upgrades about as much as going to the dentist. They always are another adventure in doing things the hard way and although getting better Uniden still has a long way to go to make them more user friendly.

I have read and reread the 396T firmware upgrade Installation instructions that are slightly different than the 996T. They additionally discuss in one section using the P25 band plan setting (not applicable to the 996T) and possibly entering a band plan table. For explicit mode systems (they include all the information needed to determine voice frequencies on the control channel) I do not make any entries. For implicit mode systems I must make table entries. Mudding the waters further later is a section discussing Motorola 800 custom band planning that requires table entries as also discussed in the 996T installation instructions. For sure I know I need to do that.

My question is Roanoke County/City an explicit or implicit mode trs? If implicit it would seem I would be making the same table entries there as in the Motorola 800 custom band planning portion. I checked the RR database and the trs mode is not shown.
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Old 04-13-2009, 5:04 AM
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I am not familiar with Uniden but for the Roanoke system you treat it the same as if was NOT rebanded. It is still using the old channel number system so you really don't even need the firmware update. All you need to do is change one control channel from 860.9625 to 857.1625. Everything else remains the same.

As for your specific questions about the BC396 it sounds like all the discussion about Explicit vs. Implicit is related to P25 trunking. Roanoke County will be going to P25 trunking in the future but for now the only P25 trunking around here is STARS (whenever it gets this far west). You can check the forums for how to program the 396 for STARS. The custom tables for 800 might be needed if Roanoke had used the new channel numbers like other rebanded sites but they did not. So again, you don't need to worry about any of those settings for Roanoke. Just treat it like a non-rebanded system with one change to a frequency.

John
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 04-13-2009, 9:36 AM
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Thanks for the info. I'll program both scanner's system types as "Motorola Type 2 800 mhz. standard" and the 396 as an "explicit" system and neither scanner requiring a custom band table. I am very familiar with programing STARS Div 1 and 5 sites. However, until a control channel is transmitted in Divisions being installed and diagnostics run to determine various site location affiliations any frequencies programed at this time are just a guess. As I have experienced in Div 1 and 5 the FCC frequency licenses for various STARS site locations with few exceptions here and there of one or two matching the license, they have not been the actual frequencies configurations used. The one exception to this non-conformity may be the 152/157 mhz. frequencies licensed to Div 4 for STARS. STARS mobiles in Div 4 only operating near the Ky and W. Va. state lines will be restricted to 50 watts input on 157 mhz. to protect current licensed users in these two states from STARS mobile RFI.

One more question. Yesterday my Roanoke friend informed me he has ordered a GRE PSR600. I know what's coming next. I also have a PSR600 and use Win500 software. I noticed an earlier post I interpreted to be a custom band plan table required for the Roanoke trs "rebanding" for GRE scanners. If the trs change basically was the addition and deletion of a few trs frequencies to a "standard" trs and I program all the trs frequencies in the TSYS I don't understand why now a custom band plan table is required. I programed the custom band table for the 600 to sight check it in Win500. Perhaps it is just a good idea to program it now using the 800 reband program option in anticipation of future system changes. Is this a correct interpretation or am I missing something regarding a custom rebanded table being required now for the PSR500 and 600?
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Old 04-14-2009, 5:02 AM
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I have 2 PSR600s and 1 PSR500. They all work fine on Roanoke without the "custom tables". However, as you mentioned since they also work WITH the custom tables I went ahead and loaded those and configured them for use as insurance against possible system changes.

As far as STARS being limited to 50 watts on mobiles, that seems like a no-brainer. The XTL5000s they are buying are 50 watt radios to the best of my knowledge.... so they are pretty much limited to 50 watts anyway.

John
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Old 04-14-2009, 6:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John View Post
I have 2 PSR600s and 1 PSR500. They all work fine on Roanoke without the "custom tables". However, as you mentioned since they also work WITH the custom tables I went ahead nd loaded those and configured them for use as insurance against possible system changes.

As far as STARS being limited to 50 watts on mobiles, that seems like a no-brainer. The XTL5000s they are buying are 50 watt radios to the best of my knowledge.... so they are pretty much limited to 50 watts anyway.

John
Tnx for the response on the programing.

The Motorola radio model XLT5000 in the frequency range 136-174 mhz. is available in two different transmitter models. AZ492FT3806 is 10-50 watts (reference my post regarding a 50 watt mobile limitation for SW Va. operation) and model AZ492FT3808 is 25-110 watts. Excluding the SW Va. license(s) most STARS mobile inputs in the 154-156 mhz. range for other divisions currently are licensed typically for 125 watts . That's why I specifically mentioned the 50 watt limitation currently only for STARS SW Va. mobiles.

http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles/...df?localeId=33
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Old 04-19-2009, 1:24 AM
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Originally Posted by n4jri View Post
The first Moto reband that I know of was Richmond Int'l Airport last year. Everything went down exactly 15 MHz. I think that Amherst and Hanover have also rebanded their EDACS, and Alleghany Co. has rebanded the 800 stuff that people keep saying is LTR, but that my radio cannot ID as such.

They're pretty sneaky...I'm sure glad there Don put a rebanding function on Win500!

73/Allen (N4JRI)
Alleghany has rebanded their 800?

Oh and as far as I know unless it is something completely new if you are talking about the COFD it's always been 800 conventional. They have repeater and T/A channels but it's never been LTR

There is an LTR system in Alleghany that the USD uses and it has a channels to ASO on it but I don't know those frequencies or how to find them. I know the systems TA channel is 463.300 but that's about all. I used to do work with the USD and was provided a radio to use but the only channel I could ever find was the simplex one.

So if it's been rebanded does that mean to subtract 15 from the 857, 858, 859 and 860 frequencies to make them 842, 843, 844 and 845?

Thanks
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Old 04-19-2009, 7:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghstwolf62 View Post

So if it's been rebanded does that mean to subtract 15 from the 857, 858, 859 and 860 frequencies to make them 842, 843, 844 and 845?

Thanks
860 - 861 (so called expanded range, I think) are either removed or reassigned to 854.0125 - 859.9875 which is not included for rebanding.

In Hampton Roads area, 4 of the 5 Smartnets and 1 EDACS Public Safety Systems have 860 frequencies which will need to be reassigned or removed.

Newport News Smartnet has frequencies in both expanded and upper requiring reband as does Chesapeake Smartzone and the Multi County P25 in upper peninsula.
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Old 04-19-2009, 11:49 AM
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Thanks, It has one frequency at 860.7375 but all the rest are below 860. It is the Tac channel though and you get a lot of interesting stuff on it so I would like to make sure I have whatever it should be if they've done that. Sounds like when I get home next month I'm gonna have to spend some time just searching through the band to see what's what.
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Old 04-20-2009, 5:03 AM
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Rebanding does not ALWAYS mean exactly 15 MHz lower. It may work it that way for some agencies but it isn't true for others. For example Roanoke moved from 860.9625 and the new frequency was 857.1625. Not a 15 MHz shift. In fact none of the 7 rebanded frequencies in Roanoke moved by 15 MHz.

John
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Old 04-20-2009, 1:49 PM
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Thanks John, all this stuff is new to me after being out of it for a few years and I'm still trying to learn which side is up. So I guess there is no way to really know what it'll be other than searching through the spectrum and finding something. Oh well that'll give me something to do for my vacation next month.
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Old 04-21-2009, 8:22 AM
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...or you could look it up in the database here...

Not that searching the spectrum isn't fun, and productive!
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Old 04-23-2009, 6:47 PM
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in covington, only the rescue squads are trunking. the alleghany co sheriff, and covington city are still uhf conventioanl.
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Old 04-24-2009, 5:48 PM
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Wow Covington is trunking EMS now? That's new. Take a job out of town and all heck breaks loose.
If you have any info on things I'd appreciate hearing about it. I could never pick up anything of Covington out in Cliftondale where I live unless it was a med unit at ARH and if they're trunked now it might make it easier.to do so.

I know there is nothing last time I looked in the DB btw since I sent a lot of that info in a couple years back. Wes does have that LTR trunking set up for the county school district I knew but not of any others. The interesting thing was the two channels set up with the county and if ASO was using them for anything. I never heard them but they are there or were.

SO I think does have another channel besides the commonly known PM and Wm Sprgs ones because last year I heard a few times units up on Potts Creek saying they'd contact them on another channel but never found it. Of course might have been using 39.5 I suppose out there.
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