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  #201 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2016, 8:56 PM
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  #202 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2016, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlh2005 View Post
Hover your mouse pointer over the "Mode" header for a full list. T=TDMA capable talkgroup, D=Digital talkgroup. I believe the "T" talkgroups listed in the Spotsy P25 database entry are educated guesses on likely talkgroups and aren't confirmed to exist.

Your PRO-651 experience seems to match that of MOSWIN system referenced at Pro-651 - The RadioReference Wiki

I believe the closest Spotsy P25 tower to you is at Chancellor convenience site (corner of Harrison Rd and Leavells/Salem Church Rds). Even if Spotsy had to lower transmission power at this site, given it's elevation and your location's elevation and proximity to MWH, I'd think you would still have good reception but are limited by the 651 being phase 1 only.
I guess that's what confused me. I thought P25 Phase 2 system translated to "everything is TDMA or encrypted" but then I saw the "Digital" talkgroups and now I'm wondering if that's also Phase 2 or if those mean we have a mix of Phase 1, Phase 2, and Encrypted. I know my Phase 1 scanner can't do TDMA and I understand what "TDMA" does but I'm unclear if it should pick up all the "Digital" ones or what "Digital" means with this system vs my Phase 1 radio.

My "what do we have to lose" test seems to confuse me farther since I can seemingly hear the school bus "base" very clearly and sometimes hear the busses but I'm not hearing ANYTHING for the Fire/EMS even though all of those talkgroups are listed as "Digital" mode.

I know below 400MHz the RFI seems to increase but I'm fairly sure I've heard a few FD pages go out on the 2m system (will this stay around I hope?) though I hear nothing on the 800MHz Fire dispatch group.

My apology if I'm misunderstanding how this system works, when I got this scanner RadioShack was going out of business and I only knew there was "P25 digital" not specific flavors of P25 and it seems even more confusing than when I was first learning how Analog trunking worked.
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  #203 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2016, 4:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiller7 View Post
I guess that's what confused me. I thought P25 Phase 2 system translated to "everything is TDMA or encrypted" but then I saw the "Digital" talkgroups and now I'm wondering if that's also Phase 2 or if those mean we have a mix of Phase 1, Phase 2, and Encrypted. I know my Phase 1 scanner can't do TDMA and I understand what "TDMA" does but I'm unclear if it should pick up all the "Digital" ones or what "Digital" means with this system vs my Phase 1 radio.

My "what do we have to lose" test seems to confuse me farther since I can seemingly hear the school bus "base" very clearly and sometimes hear the busses but I'm not hearing ANYTHING for the Fire/EMS even though all of those talkgroups are listed as "Digital" mode.

I know below 400MHz the RFI seems to increase but I'm fairly sure I've heard a few FD pages go out on the 2m system (will this stay around I hope?) though I hear nothing on the 800MHz Fire dispatch group.

My apology if I'm misunderstanding how this system works, when I got this scanner RadioShack was going out of business and I only knew there was "P25 digital" not specific flavors of P25 and it seems even more confusing than when I was first learning how Analog trunking worked.
This new P25 system seems to be literally a combination of all 3 of the systems you mentioned. I have been running comparisons using my 996p2 and a BCD396XT for several days side by side, literally. I hear lots of dual aka identical transmissions going on over both scanners. I listen to the tech's almost every Wednesday troubleshooting a system that seems to be made up of a combination of parts from other systems in an attempt to save money. Tweaking and re-tweaking seems never ending. Audio coming and going, key-ups with and without audio. Improvement seems to be very lacking. I really think this upgrade in their system is a perfect example of how not to do it. It has been a rush to get encrypted and it has failed. I understand encrypted Tac channels but not dispatch. That is my opinion standing on the sideline listening carefully.


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  #204 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2016, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiller7 View Post
I guess that's what confused me. I thought P25 Phase 2 system translated to "everything is TDMA or encrypted" but then I saw the "Digital" talkgroups and now I'm wondering if that's also Phase 2 or if those mean we have a mix of Phase 1, Phase 2, and Encrypted. I know my Phase 1 scanner can't do TDMA and I understand what "TDMA" does but I'm unclear if it should pick up all the "Digital" ones or what "Digital" means with this system vs my Phase 1 radio.

My "what do we have to lose" test seems to confuse me farther since I can seemingly hear the school bus "base" very clearly and sometimes hear the busses but I'm not hearing ANYTHING for the Fire/EMS even though all of those talkgroups are listed as "Digital" mode.

I know below 400MHz the RFI seems to increase but I'm fairly sure I've heard a few FD pages go out on the 2m system (will this stay around I hope?) though I hear nothing on the 800MHz Fire dispatch group.

My apology if I'm misunderstanding how this system works, when I got this scanner RadioShack was going out of business and I only knew there was "P25 digital" not specific flavors of P25 and it seems even more confusing than when I was first learning how Analog trunking worked.
I believe a lot of those talkgroups listed with "D" in the database should actually be "T". That includes the Fire and EMS talkgroups. I have briefly tried listening to this system with a wildcard on my Phase 1 PRO-18 while also listening to Fire and EMS on my 436. My 436, a Phase 2/TDMA scanner, was getting Fire and EMS calls while the PRO-18 was silent. But the PRO-18 was receiving school maintenance and what sounded like the landfill (discussion about leaves).

Also, every time I look at the display on my 436 when it is picking up a Fire and EMS talkgroup, it indicates a Phase 2 transmission instead of Phase 1.

The VHF frequency of 156.195 is still operating and is tied to the Fire Primary talkgroup on the 800 Mhz system.
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  #205 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2016, 9:55 AM
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This new system is giving me major headaches. All of a sudden my 396 is receiving it good (which it shouldn't) and now it doesn't. Audio slides around on the 996p2 then it doesn't.
156.195 has and then doesn't have the paging tones.


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  #206 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2016, 2:12 PM
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As to the mixing of Phase I, II and encrypted radio traffic... All public safety (fire, EMS, Sheriff's Office) communications are locked into phase II. This is unless, of course, there is some sort of patch or similar situation where the P25 protocols require the system to revert to phase I. Radios which are not phase II capable are not to be programmed for any of the public safety talkgroups.

Non-public safety (parks and rec, schools, utilities, etc.) are all phase II capable, but the majority of the traffic will most likely be phase I. This is due to the fact that a lot of the radios which were turned in from fire, EMS and Sheriff's Office are being utilized by these groups now, and the radios they previously used, which were not P25 capable, are probably in a dumpster or warehouse. You may occasionally see Phase II traffic on these channels if every radio registered to a talkgroup is phase II capable. E.g. a school bus which received a new radio (not a hand-me-down from a fire truck) is communicating with transportation base (which has a brand new console) on a talkgroup that only these two radios are registered on. In this situation, the system should see that all registered users are phase II capable and utilize TDMA so as to increase system capacity. In all likelihood, it won't happen very often due to the amount of radios which were repurposed.

Sheriff's Office is almost all encrypted. Dispatch does have the capability of disabling encryption on the consoles, but I doubt many of them understand how to do that or why they would want to. The only other encrypted talkgroup I'm aware of, outside of the Sheriff's Office, is the Fire Marshal's talkgroup.
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  #207 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2016, 10:00 PM
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Tonight, I was looking at CC dumps of the Spotsy P25 system captured on my PRO-668. These dumps are from Tuesday, yesterday, and this afternoon. I see these talkgroups showing up:
5001 = multiple instances
5003 = 1844 instances
5006 = 2016-12-14 12:48, 12:53-43
5011 = 7045 instances
5013 = 16548 instances
7514 = 2016-12-14 15:51
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  #208 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2016, 9:10 AM
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So do I understand correctly that my BCD396XT and BCD996XT cannot monitor Spotsy's new digital system since these scanners are not TDMA capable?
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  #209 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2016, 9:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by covert53 View Post
So do I understand correctly that my BCD396XT and BCD996XT cannot monitor Spotsy's new digital system since these scanners are not TDMA capable?
Correct, unless you would be satisfied with listening to school system and public works talkgroups, where some Phase 1 transmissions still occur because of older equipment used by those departments.

I'm using a 436hp which does fairly well on Spotsylania's system at my location. But successful decoding of a simulcast system depends a lot on location and antenna. I'm not in a great location for decoding the Stafford/Fredericksburg system. The audio on that system is somewhat choppy.
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  #210 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2016, 9:56 AM
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Also, just to make sure you know, most of the sheriff's department talkgroups are currently unmonitorable with any scanner due to encryption. Fire/rescue is the main thing you are missing without a Phase 2/TDMA scanner.
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  #211 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2016, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredva View Post
Also, just to make sure you know, most of the sheriff's department talkgroups are currently unmonitorable with any scanner due to encryption. Fire/rescue is the main thing you are missing without a Phase 2/TDMA scanner.
Which is what I want to listen to. I knew the SO tx were encrypted which also sucks but not as bad as the loss of F/R other than the dispatch channel. I live just on the coverage limits of Fxbr Fire/FRS and that is frustrating too since I am affiliated with them!
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  #212 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2016, 2:59 PM
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Their audio with the male dispatcher today is so loud here even with the attenuator on.

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