Sorry Whistler ..

[SCPD]

I have to say sorry to Whistler.

But that does not 100% mean that they should not put a bit more work into their front end design before the next new models come out. Not the 1088 or 1098, the next batch of new models.

My PSR800 is fine .. cause it always just sits with a rubber duck on it.

I have been having issues with in particular my WS-1095 and well this is a story for the people here.

It is all about ... our scanners.

The issue .. is that my 1095 is very very much a boat anchor right now. It is well .. virtually deaf on all bands except 800 MHz. Sometimes too much sensitivity and not enough in the selectivity department .. can have bad consequences.

But I always read about people here wishing their scanners were more sensitive. Be careful what you wish for. The issue is almost never a lack of sensitivity.

That is where it gets interesting. I have used a FM trap filter in an attempt to lessen the issues that the scanner is having. But the biggest offender was not the FM stations. But .. they did contribute for sure.

So my 1095 had still very big issues compared to my Uniden HomePatrol.

Well .. today I found out why.

It is being totally swamped by an offending signal. It is from a taxi service (the signal is the data for their computers) with a TX site about 2.5 blocks from here.

Well about a month ago I did a signal sweep of the whole commercial bands from 88 to 900 MHz from my location. Well it came in very handy ..

Using a variable VHF notch filter I was able to determine that the offender that was causing all the issues was indeed on the VHF band.

So programming the top 100 strongest signals into my HP1E I very quickly found the offender, two frequencies very close together. A bit of listening to the intermod .. and bingo. (yes .. it was even giving my HP1E a fit, complete with intermod on some frequencies) It was just easier to id the issue on my HP as it was not impacted as much as the 1095.

The moral .. maybe the issues that you are having is not your scanner, it is just doing its job but may be getting totally swamped. Yes .. unless you do your homework, you will likely never know the real reason.

The signal btw was -4 dBm .. so about 70 over s9 on my dongle. Because our scanner do not have real s-meters, they kinda suck at determining what the signal really is.

Oh please Whistler .. can we have real digital dBm meters (or similar) on our scanners ? Or at least something other than some useless bars.

Me .. I am thinking about tapping my 1095 just to add a digital s-meter, no bars for me.

I will be zapping those 2 frequencies very soon .. and my Whistler scanner will be able to do its job hopefully with much delight.

I just think of a fellow RR member here that had similar issues with his 1095 and returned 2 of them, believing they had issues. He returned to using his Uniden scanners.

So .. if you live in the country with no nearby transmitters, you will be fine and likely not have any issues with your scanner.

But if you live in the big city with lots of sites, there may be that one that is just wiping your scanner out. Unless you do some research and snooping around .. you likely will blame your scanner for what really is pretty unavoidable in such conditions.

I still maintain that how our scanners perform is directly related to where you are using them and the signals present.

If you want to read about how scanners perform under stress .. read this thread. Shameless plug .. yes I was involved in the testing.

http://forums.radioreference.com/general-scanning-discussion/319013-uniden-whistler-scanner-selectivity-shootout.html

And .. to be fair, sensitivity test results. Yes I know .. need to do some of the newer scanners. It is on the list.

http://forums.radioreference.com/gre-scanners/309168-whistler-1080-psr800-psr500-bcd436hp-shootout.html

But please .. if you want to talk about LSM, not here. This is mostly a pro Whistler thread.

 

[Boatanchor]

Increasingly congested bands and stronger signals are a fact of life.
Uniden certainly seems to handle these environments better than the GRE based designs, but even Uniden have dropped the ball in a big way by producing recent digital scanners with no NFM filtering.

Both manufacturers (Uniden and Whistler) need to recognize that simply adding additional functionality to 1990's era RF/IF stages (single pole crystal filters in the second IF, 20Khz wide ceramic filters in the 3rd IF and poor IP3 front ends etc) just doesn't cut it nowadays. I would wager that a lot of the problems people are having, is due to adjacent channel interference, Intermodulation interference and blocking from very strong in-band signals.

Some people seem to think that connecting their scanner up to a high gain/performance external antenna will improve reception, but in many cases, it simply makes it worse due to the problems outlined above.

There is potentially a lot of money to be made for the company that is able to produce a more 'robust' scanner that many of us will eagerly upgrade to. Forget about the wifi and other meaningless garbage that appeals to a minority. Just produce a basic, well built digital scanner that handles today's RF environments and people will buy it. Then, down the road, once you have a robust RF/IF platform, the same front end can be utilized in more advanced models with the extra dollop of bling, if required.

Uniden and GRE/Whislter/RS rarely change the basic design of anything between the antenna socket and the AM/FM demodulation chip. The scanners being built today share almost identical RF stages to those produced 10-15 years ago. There has been no progress in all that time!

It's just not good enough.

 

[SCPD]

The good thing .. probably 90% of my listening is on 800 MHz, but that does not mean that I should be pigeon holed to only that band due to the failures of our scanners.

Yes, it is time for new improved designs. It kinda reminds me of my first 2m ham rig. It was an Icom 25A. That thing was like 5 memory channels and terrible intermod. But .. it was the late 80's, and it was what it was.

Fortunately the ham gear is pretty good now .. but yes, scanners have not improved much in the performance area.

Still having scanners from the mid 80's that hold their own against models of today, it is well kinda sad that things really have not improved much. And yes, they are GRE designs.

I think that is why many hams will use commercial gear, cause they are engineered to take a beating and just work. But I do recognize that there is a huge price difference ... and there are very few scanner people that will pay top dollar for a scanner.

I think that is why we don't see much in the way of changes. It is all about return on their investment for the manufacturers.

Me .. I just want a descent s meter and descent performance. The bells and whistles .. couldn't care less, cause really if the radio does not work well .. they are very much meaningless. At least to some of us.

I know that I will not be buying a new scanner for a long time. It is just time for the manufacturers to up their game. Then I will be in the mood to buy again. Right now .. very much not going to happen.

Lets get rid of the **** and make a descent performing scanner, one that yes works well in the environments of today.

If people want bells and whistles .. that is what Unidens are for. :roll::roll:

- edmscan -

 

[bigcam406]

its like in real estate...."location location location!"

 

[Bearcatman911]

Location is correct and the system

Uniden does not handle particular systems any better then GRE/Whistler models. I have been looking for over a year for a good all around handheld scanner that does as close to everything I want it to do. That included performance across all bands and systems not just P25. I realize there is NO one perfect scanner as I have 188 scanners. I wanted a good looking radio with excellent performance. Bought another 396XT when I heard they were being discontinued. As soon as I programmed it our P25 system here In Indiana it was 15 seconds before baaarrrrppppp....they never got rid of that issue on the 396 and the display...too small. Tried 3 different 436's all three suffered miserably from the much talked about issues...all gotten rid of along with the 396. Along came the 1080...excellent performance no issues except it looks like an overgrown mp3 player...no keypad..bummer. Now comes the 1088....I have not placed a pre-order in years due to the usual issues with first run radios. But since this is the same great 1080 just improved even more I'll buy one the minute someone starts taking pre-orders...not even concerned with the cost. I already know how well my 1080 performs, good ears, works well on all digital systems, audio is great and so on. Will the 1088 be perfect...NO none are but whistler already in their short history in the scanner market has climbed to the top in regards to listening AND RESPONDING to customers. A year and a half later and the 436 and 536 are nothing more than $500.00 paper weights...

 

[Bearcatman911]

Right

its like in real estate...."location location location!"

You got it Bro...most don't

 

[Boatanchor]

Uniden does not handle particular systems any better then GRE/Whistler models. I have been looking for over a year for a good all around handheld scanner that does as close to everything I want it to do. That included performance across all bands and systems not just P25. I realize there is NO one perfect scanner as I have 188 scanners. I wanted a good looking radio with excellent performance. Bought another 396XT when I heard they were being discontinued. As soon as I programmed it our P25 system here In Indiana it was 15 seconds before baaarrrrppppp....they never got rid of that issue on the 396 and the display...too small. Tried 3 different 436's all three suffered miserably from the much talked about issues...all gotten rid of along with the 396. Along came the 1080...excellent performance no issues except it looks like an overgrown mp3 player...no keypad..bummer. Now comes the 1088....I have not placed a pre-order in years due to the usual issues with first run radios. But since this is the same great 1080 just improved even more I'll buy one the minute someone starts taking pre-orders...not even concerned with the cost. I already know how well my 1080 performs, good ears, works well on all digital systems, audio is great and so on. Will the 1088 be perfect...NO none are but whistler already in their short history in the scanner market has climbed to the top in regards to listening AND RESPONDING to customers. A year and a half later and the 436 and 536 are nothing more than $500.00 paper weights...

Interesting observations.

I have not tried the WS1080 yet but I was less than impressed by the PSR800, which I believe the WS1080 is based on.

I will probably still purchase the 1088 because I need a remote head radio for the vehicle and mobile radios usually have plenty of room inside for me to work on RF/IF sections

 

[Voyager]

but even Uniden have dropped the ball in a big way by producing recent digital scanners with no NFM filtering.

Actually, their latest two models (that were not updates of previously designed models) do have NFM filtering - that specifically is the BCD436HP and BCD536HP. The HP2, BCD325P2, and BCD996P2 are slight variations on older designs, and were not ground up new models.

 

[Boatanchor]

Actually, their latest two models (that were not updates of previously designed models) do have NFM filtering - that specifically is the BCD436HP and BCD536HP. The HP2, BCD325P2, and BCD996P2 are slight variations on older designs, and were not ground up new models.

It seems I need to be even more specific when commenting on Uniden's 'latest' digital models

 

[Voyager]

'Latest' is an ambiguous term. The last models they designed (one definition of latest) have the NFM filters (BCDx35HP). The latest models they released (HP-2, BCDxxxP2 series) do not. So, you may have been right or wrong. Not saying which it was, and don't care, but wanted to clarify the matter for the record.

 

[TES]

. . . I will probably still purchase the 1088 because I need a remote head radio for the vehicle and mobile radios usually have plenty of room inside for me to work on RF/IF sections

If you're looking for a remote head, you'll likely be disappointed with the WS 1088. Try Whistler's WS 1098 for a remote head.

 

[Bearcatman911]

Interesting observations.

I have not tried the WS1080 yet but I was less than impressed by the PSR800, which I believe the WS1080 is based on.

I will probably still purchase the 1088 because I need a remote head radio for the vehicle and mobile radios usually have plenty of room inside for me to work on RF/IF sections

Wait for the 1088 so you can have the full keypad unless that doesn't matter to you. You can get a 1080 at a good price right now. Speaking of that the 436 and 536 leads me to believe they are setting unsold as the prices are dropping....even at scanner master.

 

[Boatanchor]

If you're looking for a remote head, you'll likely be disappointed with the WS 1088. Try Whistler's WS 1098 for a remote head.

Yes, thanks. That's the one.

Too many 10xx's

 

[scosgt]

And on a simiar note

Had my 668 and 800 in the car yesterday (BOTH the same radio as Whistler now makes - the 668 of course is made by Whistler) and they both are pretty much worthless in the car. Was running 65 MPH down the Jersey Tpk and only heard NJSP once in a while. Now by way of comparison, I was able to stream NJSP North from my 760D from home, using only a RS 800 MHZ duckie, and heard LOTS.
Home is at least 50 miles from the nearest NJSP tower, and in another State!

When I got onto the PA TPK I was able to hear Bucks County real well and also some digital stuff in that area.
But these radios just do not perform in the car.
Was using an external mag mount/RH 77/RS 800 Mhz antenna, no real help although the long antenna did seem to work better.

This could be due to overload from the car engine or electronics. I don't know. But neither scanner worked well at all.

 

[SCPD]

Had my 668 and 800 in the car yesterday (BOTH the same radio as Whistler now makes - the 668 of course is made by Whistler) and they both are pretty much worthless in the car. Was running 65 MPH down the Jersey Tpk and only heard NJSP once in a while. Now by way of comparison, I was able to stream NJSP North from my 760D from home, using only a RS 800 MHZ duckie, and heard LOTS.
Home is at least 50 miles from the nearest NJSP tower, and in another State!

When I got onto the PA TPK I was able to hear Bucks County real well and also some digital stuff in that area.
But these radios just do not perform in the car.
Was using an external mag mount/RH 77/RS 800 Mhz antenna, no real help although the long antenna did seem to work better.

This could be due to overload from the car engine or electronics. I don't know. But neither scanner worked well at all.

Were you using an external antenna on those radios .. ?

If so, that is the problem. They are very sensitive for a scanner (look at the sensitivity / selectivity tests above) .. so I am not surprised at all that they are not doing well.

It has been well documented .. and you cannot totally blame the scanner. It is how they are being used that is the cause.

One of the main problems .. the manufacturers show in the owners manuals hooking them up to big *** antennas. That is an issue as often the scanners cannot handle the resulting signal. But yes, the Uniden scanners are often better .. and are often less sensitive than the GRE/Whistler models.

Bigger antenna does not always make for better results .. though that is usually what people try, often with worse results.

The thing .. once you put any thing more than a rubber ducky on those radios .. all bets are off, and your results may be not great. Just my opinon, and ymmv.

And .. no the car or electronics are not the issue.

Me .. I have to eliminate the 2 signals that are swamping my scanner. It is on the list of things to do.

 

[scosgt]

Were you using an external antenna on those radios .. ?

If so, that is the problem. They are very sensitive for a scanner (look at the sensitivity / selectivity tests above) .. so I am not surprised at all that they are not doing well.

It has been well documented .. and you cannot totally blame the scanner. It is how they are being used that is the cause.

One of the main problems .. the manufacturers show in the owners manuals hooking them up to big *** antennas. That is an issue as often the scanners cannot handle the resulting signal. But yes, the Uniden scanners are often better .. and are often less sensitive than the GRE/Whistler models.

Bigger antenna does not always make for better results .. though that is usually what people try, often with worse results.

The thing .. once you put any thing more than a rubber ducky on those radios .. all bets are off, and your results may be not great. Just my opinon, and ymmv.

And .. no the car or electronics are not the issue.

Me .. I have to eliminate the 2 signals that are swamping my scanner. It is on the list of things to do.

Was using an external mag mount/RH 77/RS 800 Mhz antenna, no real help although the long antenna did seem to work better.

 

[jaspence]

Any hand held radio, scanner or 2 way, used in a car without an external antenna is going to suffer. You cannot compare signal reception of a radio in a house with one in a vehicle. If it is not a simulcast system, you would be constantly in and out of signal zones at those speeds. On my local simulcast system, I never loose reception through the county.

 

[Bearcatman911]

The Best

Interesting observations.

I have not tried the WS1080 yet but I was less than impressed by the PSR800, which I believe the WS1080 is based on.

I will probably still purchase the 1088 because I need a remote head radio for the vehicle and mobile radios usually have plenty of room inside for me to work on RF/IF sections

Go for it they will be excellent radios gre people are working for GRE people are working for Whistler means great radios....

 

[Voyager]

Any hand held radio, scanner or 2 way, used in a car without an external antenna is going to suffer.

That all depends on the strength of the signals being scanned. My local P25 TRS works fine using a Race Antenna (AKA Ethernet Dummy Load). In fact, an external antenna may cause too much reception (hence interference).

 

[scosgt]

Any hand held radio, scanner or 2 way, used in a car without an external antenna is going to suffer. You cannot compare signal reception of a radio in a house with one in a vehicle. If it is not a simulcast system, you would be constantly in and out of signal zones at those speeds. On my local simulcast system, I never loose reception through the county.

I put my Home Patrol 1 in the car and using the same small magnet mount external antenna it works GREAT. Same systems being monitored.

I can only conclude that the sensitive front end in the RS scanners gets overloaded by engine interference or car electronics.