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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2018, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Citywide173 View Post
You can still find aftermarket MX batteries relatively easy, so I don't think that's really a concern.



As far as standardization, that would require agreement between manufacturers that could affect future accessory sales, so I don't think you'll ever see that.


Like I said, Power Products is offering intrinsically safe rated batteries for Jedi series radios. They had a customer commit to a large enough production run to justify it (2000 units) not but two years ago.


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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2018, 2:00 AM
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Why not just use the 18650 cells?
That's a great option for battery geeks - not so much for normal folk. Why?

Normal folk are easily duped by counterfeits, false capacity claims, poor quality etc, and don't have the means to verify such. Especially in multi-cell arrangements.

Vape-shop rejects, pulls from used laptop batteries etc, that can be generally unsafe in unskilled hands is the reason I wouldn't let my friends use just any old 18650 they could get their hands on.

Personally *I* would love it, but if I were thinking like a manufacturer with safety of my users in mind, I wouldn't go there. Not because of the user or the technology, but from the wide variety of unsafe JUNK and shady vendors. Or unsafe DIY'ers that think pulls from crashed EV's is a good idea.

As a manufacturer, now you have to provide *individual cell* protection, not knowing if users will use protected cells or not, mix and match these cells from different flashlights, vapes, etc etc. Waaay too much liability.

That's why I like the idea of manufacturers getting out of the battery biz by using a Motorola battery. (or Moto shaped clamshell for AA's). A manufacturer can't control the quality of the knock-offs, but at least the user who buys a real Moto should be assured of both quality and safety in charging. Would probably release the manufacturer from that legal side of the issue and get the product to market even faster.

Last edited by hertzian; 10-30-2018 at 2:08 AM..
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2018, 2:40 AM
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Originally Posted by slicerwizard View Post
EBL = low quality Chinese cells prone to early failures.
Please share the reputable references/sources that specifically identified the EBL batteries being prone to early failure. I would like to know more. I have not had a problem with them. Thank you.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2018, 12:45 AM
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Test the waters?

As much as I like the TRX-1, I'd be first in line for a refresh of the older WS-1040 if it had a moto style batt option.

I still absolutely LOVE the sturdy tactile feel of the buttons, the 4 way rocker (better than the trx-1, but that's me) and even the simpler LCD works just fine for me. It has a nice handheld feel - so much so that I program it - even trunked systems with alpha tagging - with only my left hand.

I suppose I got used to that line for many years as it evolved. A new back allowing for Moto batts of my choice, and perhaps a slight tweak to lower the audio frequency response, and I'd get two of them sight-unseen. While still keeping my eyes on the future.
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Old 11-06-2018, 2:06 PM
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Default How to accommodate 3.7v 18650 cells

How would I do it with a manufacturer thinking cap on to protect the company and the user?

Answer: Provide a motorola-shaped non-rechargeable clamshell holder for 3.7v nominal 18650's, just like you do for AA's with a few differences...

BUT - since you have no control over the trash a user would inevitably try to use, mismatched cells, counterfeits and so forth, just have the scanner regulator be tight about voltages and just not operate at a certain point (one dead cell for instance).

For an added protection to the user, put thermal protection, and over-current protection against any internal scanner shorts inside the shell or scanner itself. You can't judge an end-user's skill or knowledge about such things.

Non-rechargeable shell. This forces the user to do their own charging with their own charger. Takes that responsibility away from the manufacturer.

Protect Motorola from an inadvertent swap: While using the overall Moto shape for the clamshell, put a ridge on the inside face of the clamshell. That way no user with 2-way radio equipment will be able to accidentally swap the 18650 clamshell onto a 2-way radio.
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Old 11-06-2018, 2:18 PM
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Default Quality-Control baseline with Impres specification

Using a Motorola capable battery mount, QC can be baselined, while still allowing for "knock-off's to be used.

Example: to my knowledge, there are NO Motorola Impres knock-off's or counterfeits. Not even sure if any knock-off would register in the Motorola Impres battery reader either.

So a baseline could be established with something like this warning in the manual:

"Specificatons are based upon use of genuine Motorola Impres batteries".

That way, any complaint against a possible short battery life could be met with the question: "Are you using a genuine Motorola Impres battery?" And just as important, a way to verify that with an Impres battery reader.

Yet at the same time, the user would still be able to use non-Impres batteries, or other 3rd party batteries at their own risk. Establishes a baseline of performance for the company, yet at the same time gives the user the freedom not to be tied specifically to Impres.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2018, 2:28 PM
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Default Reach an agreement / license with Motorola if needed

The best of all worlds would simply be able to use Moto batteries *and* the scanner could be a total drop-in to their chargers without having to remove the battery.

Power hungry scanners are quickly moving beyond the "full charge - full discharge" type of operation, and providing at least the capability to use a real moto drop-in charger makes intermittent charging feasible.

This is much more convenient for the user, and also lengthens the service life of the battery itself with partial charge / discharge scenarios.

Personally I don't need power-hungry dancing colorized displays for radio - especially if colors or flashing icons actually generate noise in my audio, like one piece of my amateur gear does. I have a cellphone to watch movies. I am more than happy with the 1040 type of lcd display, but that's me.
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Old 11-06-2018, 2:33 PM
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Maybe the battery manufacturers should get together and come up with one battery design and tell the manufacturers to design radios around it?

Basically that is what your entire suggestion comes down to, only with Motorola being the beneficiary. Multiple manufacturers with multiple proprietary parts are what boosts the economy and drives competition to make better products. Unless you own stock in one of the companies involved, it makes no sense to want to stagnate an entire industry to one battery
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2018, 2:44 PM
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That will never happen, BUT I like the suggestion.

My recommendations are mostly about using the SHAPE due to the huge amount of 3rd-party choices that use the Moto form factor.

It may seem like I'm pushing Moto, but my suggestions would make no sense if I suggested using say the Kenwood shape due to the limited availability of Kenwood knock-offs. Now we're back to square one.

Sure, you can get them, but how many 3rd-party Kenwood knock-off's can be placed in your online cart along with socks?

By using the Moto form factor, a wider spectrum of users could be accommodated - from the very low end to those who want or already have investments in the Impres line of stuff - like many first responders. (but again, no responder should use a scanner for anything but *entertainment*).

The absolute best part, is that the manufacturer can remove themselves from all of these industry-type discussions:

"Hey, we just provide a AA clamshell that happens to use the Moto shape and connections. How far you want to go beyond that is up to you."

Last edited by hertzian; 11-06-2018 at 2:50 PM..
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2018, 3:37 PM
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Maybe the battery manufacturers should get together and come up with one battery design and tell the manufacturers to design radios around it?
I thought this over - while we can't change the world overnight, how about WHISTLER AND UNIDEN both adopting this approach with Moto-shaped batteries?

Oh happy day! Since I own and use BOTH brands, along with Moto, that would be a total knockout !

I mean, both Uniden and Whistler use AA's in their products. Although not ideal, we have all swapped AA's between them at times right?

If BOTH manufacturers could kiss and make up, and adopt the same approach of Moto styled batts, it's a win-win-win for all of us, especially those of us that use both brands. Not having to worry about different battery capabilities means that we would mostly likely make an impulse buy or two benefitting them both in the long run. Oh yeah.

Not having to think about battery issues if one wants to "jump ship" to the other brand, already has his battery infrastructure investment in place, so the competetive issues would be more about radio performance, and not having to worry about yet another battery charging setup. Much like not worrying about AA's being usable in either brand. That enhances the one-click purchasing power for you marketing types.

One step at a time my friend...

Last edited by hertzian; 11-06-2018 at 3:54 PM..
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2018, 4:14 PM
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Default Buy the entire line all over again!

Tell you what - maybe there's too much invested in the "flagship models" to make this kind of a change right away.

But I'd be sorely tempted if a 1040 refresh, or a 436 refresh that incorporated the moto shaped batts - I'd buy them all over again and give them some leeway in the performance department, due to the overall convenience.

Well, that's me. If that would fly in the boardrooms, I don't know.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2018, 8:26 AM
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Originally Posted by woodpecker View Post
I would think 18650 li-ion would be a better option, cheap and easy to get hold of and there are loads of external chargers for them as well.
Yes I order these from ebay ,.... I never like proprietary battery packs , always way overpriced ,.. I want to able to have power options , & affordable batteries ,...The best radio in the world becomes useless when your out of power & can only afford 2 packs , do that right , deal with RAS enabled systems , & properly track all modes ,..& then you will have my attention,...
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2018, 12:24 PM
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Holy Cow! Has this thread devolved from the original post.

Now everyone is comparing dealers, batteries, and other nonsense that will never fit onto a current scanner.

I understand the need for a high capacity battery for scanner users. I would like a drop in charger also. One of the nice things with my ham radio HT's.

Why not try and get this thread back on track.

Larry
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2018, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by N8IAA View Post
Holy Cow! Has this thread devolved from the original post.

Why not try and get this thread back on track.

Larry
but.....the directions it has gone have been primarily the OPs doing.....how can you say it's devolved when it appears to have gone in directions he's happy with?
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2018, 12:03 AM
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but.....the directions it has gone have been primarily the OPs doing.....how can you say it's devolved when it appears to have gone in directions he's happy with?
You know, you could be right. Hertzian does like to ramble. Check out his other posts.

Larry
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2018, 2:34 AM
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I definitely have that bad habit of rambling, so I'll try to cut that back. Especially for something that may only be a total pipe-dream.

I'm just pushing the envelope of thought here, so that any idea might be taken seriously and not just rejected out of hand as if coming from someone who hasn't put any thought into it.

I might have to put *myself* into the ignore list.
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