|
|
|
|
| World News and Events Mother gives birth to bigfoot-like child! Africa sinks! If it happens you'll read it here |
06-01-2009, 08:01 AM
|
 |
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: From RLG, Fly heading 053, intercept 315 DVV
Posts: 2,383
|
|
Airfrance Missing Plane
Last edited by poltergeisty; 06-01-2009 at 08:03 AM..
|
06-01-2009, 09:15 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: From RLG, Fly heading 053, intercept 315 DVV
Posts: 2,383
|
|
__________________
"Never apologize for showing feeling. When you do so, you apologize for the truth."
-Benjamin Disraeli Bugger out!
Last edited by poltergeisty; 06-01-2009 at 09:29 AM..
|
06-01-2009, 10:50 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: From RLG, Fly heading 053, intercept 315 DVV
Posts: 2,383
|
|
__________________
"Never apologize for showing feeling. When you do so, you apologize for the truth."
-Benjamin Disraeli Bugger out!
|
06-01-2009, 10:56 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: From RLG, Fly heading 053, intercept 315 DVV
Posts: 2,383
|
|
They don't use FANS/A down there, do they?
|
06-01-2009, 12:05 PM
|
 |
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,229
|
|
This will be very sad and yet interesting to follow. The Airbus A330 is fairly new by industry standards and has a pretty good safety record. Electrical failure and pressure loss are a nasty combination for any pilot to deal with. God, my heart goes out to all those affected.
Manny
__________________
N1SQB - AMATEUR- EXTRA CLASS
G.M.R.S - WQLH214
IN GOD WE TRUST! EVERYONE ELSE,WE MONITOR.....
Last edited by N1SQB; 06-01-2009 at 12:26 PM..
|
06-01-2009, 03:26 PM
|
 |
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Andover, MA
Posts: 73
|
|
Definitely a sad day. Prayers go out to the family of the victims.
Wondering if there would be some form of ATC recording. Looks like last contact was to the Brazilian control since they were switching to Senegal.
Time line
2230 GMT Sunday Flight AF447 takes off from Rio's Airport do Galeao
0133 GMT Monday Plane makes last contact with Brazilian air traffic control
0148 GMT Plane disappears from radar
0320 GMT Plane fails to make scheduled radio contact
0530 GMT Brazilian Air Force launches search
0910 GMT Plane fails to make scheduled landing in Paris
That must have been one catastrophic electrical failure. Most of this route is 'out of radar' range so they didn't have a chance to switch transponder to 7700.
|
06-01-2009, 09:10 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 315
|
|
Lightning strikes almost never cause system failures much less complete electrical failures. Even if it did, electrical failures don't cause commercial aircraft to crash. They are designed to deal with complete loss of electrical generation. Commercial aircraft are struck by lightning ever week across the US, I have experienced it twice myself in aircraft I was flying.
There is something else going on here. Fire on board?(fire would be far more likely to cause electrical problems then lightning) in flight breakup in extreme turbulence?(where there is lightning there is sever or great turbulence)
|
06-01-2009, 10:15 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: From RLG, Fly heading 053, intercept 315 DVV
Posts: 2,383
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by immelmen
Lightning strikes almost never cause system failures much less complete electrical failures. Even if it did, electrical failures don't cause commercial aircraft to crash. They are designed to deal with complete loss of electrical generation. Commercial aircraft are struck by lightning ever week across the US, I have experienced it twice myself in aircraft I was flying.
There is something else going on here. Fire on board?(fire would be far more likely to cause electrical problems then lightning) in flight breakup in extreme turbulence?(where there is lightning there is sever or great turbulence)
|
Agreed!
Quote:
|
There is something else going on here.
|
Air-Bus...
__________________
"Never apologize for showing feeling. When you do so, you apologize for the truth."
-Benjamin Disraeli Bugger out!
|
06-01-2009, 10:19 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: From RLG, Fly heading 053, intercept 315 DVV
Posts: 2,383
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by rad1oreference
That must have been one catastrophic electrical failure. Most of this route is 'out of radar' range so they didn't have a chance to switch transponder to 7700.
|
In a way, the pilot's did squawk 7600...
__________________
"Never apologize for showing feeling. When you do so, you apologize for the truth."
-Benjamin Disraeli Bugger out!
|
06-02-2009, 12:20 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Andover, MA
Posts: 73
|
|
Flying over the mideast, we experienced St Elmo's fire on many occasions and the mid east is notorious for their storms but nothing major happens even when you see the static electricity on the windshield. The A-330 has a 16:1 glide ratio but even at FL 370 was too far to the land. My take it that the electric systems went dead, coupled with hydraulics which made controlling the aircraft very difficult in a storm situation.
A spin followed and/or the structure of the aircraft broke under heavy pressure. Open to scenarios.
|
06-02-2009, 02:44 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 315
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by rad1oreference
My take it that the electric systems went dead, coupled with hydraulics which made controlling the aircraft very difficult in a storm situation.
A spin followed and/or the structure of the aircraft broke under heavy pressure. Open to scenarios.
|
that means all five generators failed, the RAT failed, both hot battery buses lost power, the backup hot battery bus lost power, the PMA's all failed, and all four hydraulic pumps failed?? all at the same time?? Even in a scarebus that would be a stretch. A twin engine turbojet has at least 8 electrical systems(including each hot battery bus and the APU as a system) that are all independent of each other. The only thing that could come close to getting them all would be a fire on the buses(SwissAir 111). Also, a spin in an airbus would be all but impossible. The FCS/SPS wont let the AOA get that high. |
06-02-2009, 02:49 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: From RLG, Fly heading 053, intercept 315 DVV
Posts: 2,383
|
|
Interesting. I've tried this in Flightsim before, but never thought it could be done in real life.
Quote:
An Air Transit A330-243 completed what is thought to be the world's longest recorded glide over the Atlantic Ocean after a fuel leak resulted in both engines shutting down.
For nearly half an hour the plane glided powerless. It remained airborne for 65 nautical miles before landing in the Azores. There were no injuries.
The plane can carry up to 293 passengers depending on the seat configuration. It has a range of 12,500km.
|
Twin-Engine Jet Accident 'Bound To Happen': Ex BA Captain Tells Sky News Range Had Been Stretched | World News | Sky News
So four is better than 2, huh. Who da thunk?
__________________
"Never apologize for showing feeling. When you do so, you apologize for the truth."
-Benjamin Disraeli Bugger out!
|
06-02-2009, 02:59 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: From RLG, Fly heading 053, intercept 315 DVV
Posts: 2,383
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by immelmen
that means all five generators failed, the RAT failed, both hot battery buses lost power, the backup hot battery bus lost power, the PMA's all failed, and all four hydraulic pumps failed?? all at the same time?? Even in a scarebus that would be a stretch. A twin engine turbojet has at least 8 electrical systems(including each hot battery bus and the APU as a system) that are all independent of each other. The only thing that could come close to getting them all would be a fire on the buses(SwissAir 111). Also, a spin in an airbus would be all but impossible. The FCS/SPS wont let the AOA get that high.
|
It's kinda why I hyphenated Air-Bus.
Perhaps the computer system went south.
Batteries only last so long. How is the ram air turbine deployed?
Carbon fiber might be a vector for lightning to cause a fire?
__________________
"Never apologize for showing feeling. When you do so, you apologize for the truth."
-Benjamin Disraeli Bugger out!
|
06-02-2009, 03:58 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8
|
|
Have any HFDL listeners come up with data from the flight? There were about four minutes of exchanges between Air France maintenance and the aircraft, during which the flying machine automatically reported equipment and system failures.
If anyone had their receivers up and running with something like PC-HFDL, they may have some or all of the data. Now, the '330 may also have had satcom. If so, then the datalinking could have gone that way instead over HF.
Seems that the crew had too much of a battle on their hands to make a distress call.
Propagation was pretty good over the last couple of days, so it is plausible that someone may have Air France 447 in their HFDL logs.
|
06-02-2009, 04:15 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: From RLG, Fly heading 053, intercept 315 DVV
Posts: 2,383
|
|
I believe the data did go over satcom...
|
06-02-2009, 07:07 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: From RLG, Fly heading 053, intercept 315 DVV
Posts: 2,383
|
|
Last edited by poltergeisty; 06-02-2009 at 07:23 AM..
|
06-02-2009, 07:28 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: From RLG, Fly heading 053, intercept 315 DVV
Posts: 2,383
|
|
Quote:
Although safety experts discounted the possibility that lightning brought down Flight 447, several said that storms and winds that accompany lightning could have severely damaged the 4-year-old plane or caused pilots to lose control.
Aircraft wiring expert Ed Block said in-flight turbulence could cause electrical wires to rub against one another, cracking the wire insulation and leading to an electrical failure or fire. From 1999 to 2004, Block was part of a Federal Aviation Administration advisory group that inspected planes for cracked wiring.
|
Search for Flight 447 could be lengthy - USATODAY.com |
06-02-2009, 07:54 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: From RLG, Fly heading 053, intercept 315 DVV
Posts: 2,383
|
|
|
06-02-2009, 12:16 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Andover, MA
Posts: 73
|
|
Backup systems on the A-330 are the best out there. Most likely explanation is rapid fire propagation. The fire sensros are mostly wehre the heavy electrical systems are and also link sensors to the hydraulics.
Lightning problems, very unlikely. Even our old C-5's take a beating over the mid east and never had any problems. Ask the Tanker drivers since they have to wait for us to make contact.
Number 1,2 and 3 ADIRU failed? very unlikely.
Stress fracture from aircraft unusual profile due to storms and other weather conditions? Very possible
Hopefully they recover the black box soon. I can't imagine what the families are going through.
Not sure where any comms would be. contact was brief.
|
| Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
|
| Display Modes |
 Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:27 AM.
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
