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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2017, 8:57 AM
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Default Bay Minette, Daphne, Foley, Robertsdale System

Trying to program this system into a BCD436HP since it does not seem to be in the master database. I have created the system in Sentinel with all the sites, frequencies, departments, and talkgroups but have a couple of questions.

First, since the system is a NXDN NEXEDGE 4800, is it even possible to monitor with the 436HP?

Second, I had to make some guesses since NXDN was not one of the choices in the Sentinel dropdown for System Type. I went with EDACS as the System Type because when I chose Decimal Format for the EDACS TGID format, the talkgroups from the Radio Reference page formatted correctly in Sentinel. I suspect, however, that EDACS is not the right one.

Third, for the Band Type, I have tried both Wide (Standard) and Narrow with no luck.

I have location control in place and used the latitude and longitude data from the Radio Reference pages for each site. I am within range of receiving but am obviously hearing nothing.

If anyone has some success with this system, please let me know.

Shep
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Old 05-16-2017, 9:03 AM
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There are no Uniden scanners that can listen to NXDN. You can change the programing all you want and it won't help. This is the reason Sentinel is not pulling it off the site for you. You may want to look at Whistler scanners since they have NXDN capabilities.
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Old 05-16-2017, 9:15 AM
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Thanks for the quick reply. I'll stop pulling my hair out.

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Old 05-16-2017, 4:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sadave View Post
Thanks for the quick reply. I'll stop pulling my hair out.

Shep
I share your frustration. I have an SDR that I use for SW radio listening, but I've decoded some NXDN content with DSD+. It won't follow the trunking, though, so I only hear snippets from nearby agencies like Foley and Summerdale.

Knowing my luck, if I invested in a NXDN capable scanner, they'd decide to go encrypted just to spite me.
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Old 05-16-2017, 5:54 PM
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I have DSDPlus fastlane setup correctly. NXDN does not carry far so you have to be close to a tower or have some type of amplification. Its mostly used by Foley on talk group 120 and you can get AVL from the control channel. There is also a weird unrecognizable signal that causes echo's in SDR around the 460Mhz range it sounds like data bursts and can mess with getting a good signal.
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Old 06-02-2017, 9:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomServo View Post
I share your frustration. I have an SDR that I use for SW radio listening, but I've decoded some NXDN content with DSD+. It won't follow the trunking, though, so I only hear snippets from nearby agencies like Foley and Summerdale.

Knowing my luck, if I invested in a NXDN capable scanner, they'd decide to go encrypted just to spite me.
DSD+ will follow NXDN trunking, but you need two dongles if you want to get the voice traffic. Additionally, you will need the proper channel numbers, which for some reason that baffles me, the RR DB does not have. Each frequency has a system specific channel number assigned.

These are the frequency/channel numbers for the two Daphne sites.


; Daphne
NEXEDGE48, 69, 5, 098, 453.32500, 0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 69, 5, 122, 453.47500, 0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 69, 5, 186, 453.87500, 0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 69, 5, 214, 460.07500, 0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 69, 5, 258, 460.35000, 0, 0
;
; Daphne (Spanish Fort)
NEXEDGE48, 69, 6, 084, 453.23750, 0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 69, 6, 170, 453.77500, 0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 69, 6, 198, 453.95000, 0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 69, 6, 222, 460.12500, 0, 0
NEXEDGE48, 69, 6, 254, 460.32500, 0, 0

Here are the talk groups and aliases that I copied on my last trip down there,

NEXEDGE48, 69, 001, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, ""
NEXEDGE48, 69, 100, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, ""
NEXEDGE48, 69, 101, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, "Bay Minnette Fire Dispatch"
NEXEDGE48, 69, 109, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, ""
NEXEDGE48, 69, 118, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, "Baldwin Fire North Dispatch"
NEXEDGE48, 69, 120, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, "Foley Police Dispatch 1"
NEXEDGE48, 69, 121, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, "Foley Police Dispatch 2"
NEXEDGE48, 69, 129, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, "Foley Police Jail 1"
NEXEDGE48, 69, 137, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, "Foley Police Operations"
NEXEDGE48, 69, 142, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, ""
NEXEDGE48, 69, 251, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, "Daphne Police"
NEXEDGE48, 69, 253, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, "Daphne Police Records"
NEXEDGE48, 69, 260, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, ""
NEXEDGE48, 69, 276, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, "Daphne Fire"
NEXEDGE48, 69, 287, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, ""
NEXEDGE48, 69, 351, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, "Robertsdale Police Dispatch"
NEXEDGE48, 69, 430, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, ""
NEXEDGE48, 69, 501, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, "Foley Fire Dispatch"
NEXEDGE48, 69, 1176, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, "Baldwin Sheriff Central"
NEXEDGE48, 69, 1617, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, "Baldwin Fire South Dispatch"
NEXEDGE48, 69, 1401, 50, Normal, 0, 2016/07/29 22:00, "Baldwin Sheriff Interop"

A nice thing about NXDN is that it transmits the alias, so you don't have to guess.

DSD+ did a good job decoding this and providing audio until something, I suspect a CFL light bulb, corrupted some of the DSD+ files and I stopped receiving audio.
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Old 06-02-2017, 10:48 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2tpDhnuRHY is the way you set up a NXDN in DSDPlus using FMP. The strongest towers are Magnolia Springs, Summerdale, and Daphne-Spanish Fort. They have the strongest signals. but if you are closer to another tower that works better. If you have fastlane. Foley's AVL info is broadcasted throughout the entire system. Remember NXDN does not carry far so if you are on the beach, you wont get a signal. I am in luck to be next to the Foley tower so I can hear all of their talkgroups. I Have mapped all of the towers south of Robertsdale. RR is correct of those towers. All of the northern Towers are up to other people.
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Last edited by princessthelus; 06-02-2017 at 10:56 PM.. Reason: Forgot a word and forgot infomatiom
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Old 06-03-2017, 1:47 AM
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Thanks for the extra info. I never could get FMP to work with my SDRplay so if I get some extra cash and spare time, I may get a cheaper couple of dongles just to use with DSD+ and FMP. But to be honest, during lighter periods, using the multiple virtual VRX feature in SDRuno works pretty well. I don't get everything but I get enough to know what's going on.

I'm also in Foley and I can only really hear Foley and Magnolia Springs and one Daphne tower. For some reason Robertsdale is just too weak to get any kind of audio decoding done.
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Old 06-03-2017, 2:23 AM
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Tom, I use 2 dongles and a great antenna. The best site is Foley(site 3). The tower is right next to the police station if you need a geological location.I have DSDPlus Fastlane, Not only do I get all of the talkgroups from the site, I also get the AVL info from the in car units and can see where they are almost at real time. Stick to Foley's site due to the fact you will get mutual aid talkgroups from both police and fire. The best part of this is any encrypted talkgroup on the AFRN(P25pii) is in the clear on the NXDN network when they use mutual aid. I don't think Foley as any real MDT's other than having OVIS and the internet. They call all 10-28 and 10-27's over the radio. No real encrypted talkgroups ether. I have mapped most of the talkgroups on the system and have been to lazy to update the RR database. Attached is what a proper set up looks like.
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Old 06-03-2017, 8:00 AM
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Has anyone had any luck monitoring this system with the Whistler TRX-1?
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Old 06-03-2017, 1:28 PM
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The AVL information is a neat trick. How do you get that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by princessthelus View Post
Tom, I use 2 dongles and a great antenna. The best site is Foley(site 3). The tower is right next to the police station if you need a geological location.I have DSDPlus Fastlane, Not only do I get all of the talkgroups from the site, I also get the AVL info from the in car units and can see where they are almost at real time. Stick to Foley's site due to the fact you will get mutual aid talkgroups from both police and fire. The best part of this is any encrypted talkgroup on the AFRN(P25pii) is in the clear on the NXDN network when they use mutual aid. I don't think Foley as any real MDT's other than having OVIS and the internet. They call all 10-28 and 10-27's over the radio. No real encrypted talkgroups ether. I have mapped most of the talkgroups on the system and have been to lazy to update the RR database. Attached is what a proper set up looks like.
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Old 06-03-2017, 2:10 PM
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Quote:
....I have DSDPlus Fastlane,....... Attached is what a proper set up looks like.....
Anyone get this working on a Unix system? I have had it working on windows but could not live with all the Cortana, apps that cant be uninstalled...
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Old 05-15-2018, 8:10 PM
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Default Uniden NXDN Upgrade

I purchased the NXDN upgrade and have installed it my 436HP. Since the Sentinel upgrade is not out yet, I followed the instructions to program all the frequencies and talkgroups manually into the scanner but have yet to hear anything at all. I've set all the lat/long coordinates for the tower sites, the lat/long coordinates for the departments, turned on location control but have not heard a peep. I seem to recall reading that Foley PD is encrypted but can I expect to hear anything on the NXDN systems in the Foley area?
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Old 05-15-2018, 10:18 PM
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Are you getting the NX4 indicator on the screen when you scan those systems?

A couple more things that would help us help you.

Did you put in the RAN and Channel numbers?
Did you program as a NXDN 4800 Trunk System?
Is this programmed as one system with multiple sites or multiple systems with a single site.

I'd also turn off location control for now.

Another thing to check is Service Type for the TGs. The x36HP will default to "Custom" for any manually entered TGs. If you don't have that enabled in the Service Type list, then the scanner won't stop on any Talk Groups.

Also, at least temporarily, turn on ID Search.

Those are some things to check. The channel numbers are available in the database here, but you have to drill down a bit to find them. Go to the system information in the RRDB and click on the Site name. That will bring you to another page and the Ch number and frequency information is on the bottom of the page.

I was looking forward to programming the NXDN system into my 436HP, but my son has moved out of Baldwin County and so I don't foresee returning there any time soon.




Quote:
Originally Posted by sadave View Post
I purchased the NXDN upgrade and have installed it my 436HP. Since the Sentinel upgrade is not out yet, I followed the instructions to program all the frequencies and talkgroups manually into the scanner but have yet to hear anything at all. I've set all the lat/long coordinates for the tower sites, the lat/long coordinates for the departments, turned on location control but have not heard a peep. I seem to recall reading that Foley PD is encrypted but can I expect to hear anything on the NXDN systems in the Foley area?
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Old 05-16-2018, 5:04 AM
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I can confirm that Foley PD switched on encryption earlier this year. I still hear a few things from the Foley tower, and I believe fire pages are still in the clear but that's about it. After Foley went encrypted I gave up even trying to listen. I was seeing constant activity but not hearing anything anymore.
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Old 05-16-2018, 9:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garys View Post
Are you getting the NX4 indicator on the screen when you scan those systems?

A couple more things that would help us help you.

Did you put in the RAN and Channel numbers?
Did you program as a NXDN 4800 Trunk System?
Is this programmed as one system with multiple sites or multiple systems with a single site.

I'd also turn off location control for now.

Another thing to check is Service Type for the TGs. The x36HP will default to "Custom" for any manually entered TGs. If you don't have that enabled in the Service Type list, then the scanner won't stop on any Talk Groups.

Also, at least temporarily, turn on ID Search.

Those are some things to check. The channel numbers are available in the database here, but you have to drill down a bit to find them. Go to the system information in the RRDB and click on the Site name. That will bring you to another page and the Ch number and frequency information is on the bottom of the page.

I was looking forward to programming the NXDN system into my 436HP, but my son has moved out of Baldwin County and so I don't foresee returning there any time soon.
Thanks for suggestions above. Here's what I've done:

Are you getting the NX4 indicator on the screen when you scan those systems? Yes. I see the NX4 in the lower right corner of the screen while scanning. This appears at the same time the signal strength display in the upper right shows all bars. Scanning does not stop when this occurs. This is probably the control channel?

Did you put in the RAN and Channel numbers? Utilizing the data from the RRDB, I programmed the channel numbers for the various department but was not prompted to put in the RAN. I've gone back through all the screens and still cannot find any reference to RAN.

Did you program as a NXDN 4800 Trunk System? Utilizing the software upgrade, the only choice was for NXDN as the system type. There was no prompt for 4800 or 9600.

Is this programmed as one system with multiple sites or multiple systems with a single site? I programmed this as one system with multiple sites in the fashion that I've seen other trunked systems.

I have turned off Location Control.

I selected the appropriate service type for each channel and have ensured the service types are turned on.

ID Searching is turned on.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:52 AM
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My replies are in red below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sadave View Post
Thanks for suggestions above. Here's what I've done:

Are you getting the NX4 indicator on the screen when you scan those systems? Yes. I see the NX4 in the lower right corner of the screen while scanning. This appears at the same time the signal strength display in the upper right shows all bars. Scanning does not stop when this occurs. This is probably the control channel?

Yes, that indicates that you are receiving the control channel data. Scanning shouldn't stop.

Did you put in the RAN and Channel numbers? Utilizing the data from the RRDB, I programmed the channel numbers for the various department but was not prompted to put in the RAN. I've gone back through all the screens and still cannot find any reference to RAN.

Channel numbers are different than Talk Group numbers. The scanner needs the channel number and frequency to know which frequency to tune to. RAN is site number, so you should be able to just follow the site information in the RRDB.

Did you program as a NXDN 4800 Trunk System? Utilizing the software upgrade, the only choice was for NXDN as the system type. There was no prompt for 4800 or 9600.

Sorry, you're correct on that. The scanner determines that on it's own.

Is this programmed as one system with multiple sites or multiple systems with a single site? I programmed this as one system with multiple sites in the fashion that I've seen other trunked systems.

Good, that's likely to work better.

I have turned off Location Control.

I selected the appropriate service type for each channel and have ensured the service types are turned on.

ID Searching is turned on.
Again, good. I think you might want to go back in and look at the channel/frequency information.
This is what the Channel/frequency table looks like for Bay Minette (Site 1).

CH ID Frequency
58 453.075
100 453.3375
140 453.5875
158 453.700
190 453.900

I'd try RAN 1 since it's Site 1 in the system.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garys View Post
My replies are in red below.



Again, good. I think you might want to go back in and look at the channel/frequency information.
This is what the Channel/frequency table looks like for Bay Minette (Site 1).

CH ID Frequency
58 453.075
100 453.3375
140 453.5875
158 453.700
190 453.900

I'd try RAN 1 since it's Site 1 in the system.
I think I am getting closer. I was unfamiliar with setting RAN but stumbled upon it through the "Set Frequencies" screen > Select Frequency > Set RAN/Area. I've followed your suggestion and set each frequency in Site 1 to RAN 1 and used the same format for the rest of the sites.

This is first line of data from the table in the RRDB and these are the frequencies I programmed as "SITE 1 Bay Minette."

001 (1) Bay Minette 453.075c 453.3375a 453.5875 453.700 453.900

On the screens to program each of the nine sites, there was no place enter channels or talkgroups.

I found the tables for each site listing the CH ID and Frequency but am unclear where to program the Channel IDs except in the individual departments.

When programming the individual departments, the Edit Channel screen allowed for "Edit TGID" and I used 101 for the Bay Minette FD from the RRDB table. The Edit Channel screen also had "Set Channel Number Tag" which I had left blank because I did not know that information.

I have added channel numbers 58, 100, 140, 158, and 190 as well as setting the Service Type for the Bay Minette FD but don't know if this right. Since the only place to program channels is the Edit Channel screen for each department, which CH IDs from the table should be used?

Also, I could not find anywhere in the programming process an association between the Channel IDs and Frequency; i.e., CH ID 58 with Frequency 453.075.
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Old 05-16-2018, 1:10 PM
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Think you might still have Channel and Talk Group confused. Channel is part of the Site information, while TGs go into the Department section.

If you're still using the menu system for programming, which I think you are, do this,

MENU->MANAGE FAVORITES (Select the Favorites List you are using)REVIEW/EDIT SYSTEM-(Select the System you want to edit)EDIT SITE (Select the Site you want to Edit)->SET FREQUENCIES (either enter a frequency or select one)-> ENTER.

When you press ENTER the next screen will be Input LCN. LCN is the Channel number. For 453.075, the LCN (Channel) is 58. Do that for all of the sites and frequencies for the system and see how that works.

The Fairhope site is no longer active, but both Daphne sites, Foley, and the others are. Last I knew, Daphne PD and FD were in the clear. I think that Fire/EMS dispatch TGs from the 700Mhz system are simulcast on this system. I can check my notes, if you want, to see what I had for active TGs. The information is from late 2016, but except for Foley being encrypted, I don't think much has changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sadave View Post
I think I am getting closer. I was unfamiliar with setting RAN but stumbled upon it through the "Set Frequencies" screen > Select Frequency > Set RAN/Area. I've followed your suggestion and set each frequency in Site 1 to RAN 1 and used the same format for the rest of the sites.

This is first line of data from the table in the RRDB and these are the frequencies I programmed as "SITE 1 Bay Minette."

001 (1) Bay Minette 453.075c 453.3375a 453.5875 453.700 453.900

On the screens to program each of the nine sites, there was no place enter channels or talkgroups.

I found the tables for each site listing the CH ID and Frequency but am unclear where to program the Channel IDs except in the individual departments.

When programming the individual departments, the Edit Channel screen allowed for "Edit TGID" and I used 101 for the Bay Minette FD from the RRDB table. The Edit Channel screen also had "Set Channel Number Tag" which I had left blank because I did not know that information.

I have added channel numbers 58, 100, 140, 158, and 190 as well as setting the Service Type for the Bay Minette FD but don't know if this right. Since the only place to program channels is the Edit Channel screen for each department, which CH IDs from the table should be used?

Also, I could not find anywhere in the programming process an association between the Channel IDs and Frequency; i.e., CH ID 58 with Frequency 453.075.
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Old 05-16-2018, 1:33 PM
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I used the info in the database to program the Foley site and I hear Foley FD.
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