HF Amateur antennas

[IdleMonitor]

Ham radio has always been somewhat an interest for me and something I may look into in the future.

I am curious. Is there any half decent vertical antennas that can work the hf bands? If I get into ham radio my main interest would mostly be simply in the hf areas and not so much vhf/uhf unless mobile.

Reason I ask about vertical antennas is I'm limited for space and beams and dipoles arent really possible for me.

 

[LtDoc]

It's certainly possible to use a vertical antenna on the HF bands. It may be a 'loaded' vertical antenna not a 'full sized' one, but they work. It's a very good idea with vertical antennas, especially ground mounted ones, to have a very 'nice' ground radial system. Lots of wire in the dirt and as long as you can make them. Lots of possibilities, just have to select the one that best fits your circumstances.
- 'Doc

 

[IdleMonitor]

Any suggestions to what kind of models are cost effective and are broadbanded. Or would I need a tuner for each band?

As you have seen my other posts regarding my cb antenna an pics I am limited to one chimney and thats it.

Vertical is definitely what im looking for.

Doesnt need to be worldwide capable. But enough to work Canada and the US is fine by me.

 

[popnokick]

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There are dozens. However, mounting on your chimney is going to present a challenge if you use a vertical that requires ground radials... And most do. Check out the Comet CHA-250B which is very broadbanded and no ground plane. Or consider mounting vertical on the ground with radials at lower cost than chimney.

 

[LtDoc]

It's a fact that HF antennas are 'large', you can't get around that much. Using the same antenna on more than one band also get's into some interesting complications, but it's still gonna be a big antenna. I'm not saying that a chimney mount isn't possible, but you should take a good look at that chimney to make sure it's strong enough to handle the load you will be placing on it.
I can't recommend any of the newer vertical HF antennas because I have no experience with them. I've used wire horizontal antennas most of the time (wire is cheap!).
To work on more than one band an antenna has to be adjustable in some fashion. Having 'traps' in it is a form of being 'adjustable', if that makes sense. Using a mobile antenna with a suitable "groundplane" or counterpoise is also certainly possible. Count on it being expen$ive though. A good tuner and a random length wire would probably be workable too. Lots of qualifiers/limits of various kinds and you'll know more about your situation that I ever will.
Good luck.
- 'Doc

 

[WB4CS]

While I have personally never used this antenna, I've heard several hams on the air that have, and most of them say it's a great antenna. Vertical Antennas (BigIR, SmallIR and CrankIR) | Steppir, Inc – Antennas for Amateur Radio and Industry

If you're more into the build-it-yourself route, pick up a copy of the ARRL Antenna Book. That's got loads of information about HF antennas.

 

[prcguy]

The Comet CHA-250 is a dummy load on a stick. How will the OP mount the vertical, ground or elevated like a roof? Either case they need a LOT of ground radials to work as expected.

I've had a small number of HF verticals and in addition to the Comet, the GAP Titan was very disappointing. The two verticals that stand out the best for me were a Butternut HV-6 mounted on a commercial building with a 100ft X 100ft copper sheet metal roof under the antenna. That worked well and I had a G5RV 25ft high at the same site to compare with, however the Butternut was only marginally better on the higher bands with DX.

The other happy vertical is a DX Engineering 43ft with about 30 ground radials 30ft long each at a remote site . It works surprisingly well and usually beats the 94ft flat top dipole (ZS6BKW) up 30ft on 40 and 20M DX. Comparing the 43ft vertical with balun at the base to something like a Butternut HV-6 you will find the 43ft works better on 80 through about 40m and the Butternut works better on the higher bands. This is due to the 43ft having undesirable upward radiation on the higher bands where the Butternut or any trap type vertical is a 1/4 wave resonant on all bands and has a more predictable low angle radiation, but its shorter and less efficient on the lowest bands.

Both types of antennas require a tuner at the radio to work CW and phone portions of the band and especially the 43ft vertical to work anywhere, but if you place a tuner at the base of the 43ft you will raise the efficiency quite a bit on most bands.

Bottom line is everything is a compromise and most of the advertising for antennas is complete hype, especially the clever ads from GAP. When you listen to advise from others on antennas always ask "what did you compare it too?" I see a lot of people raving about a particular antenna only to find that's the only antenna they ever had an they have no reference.

In my humble, limited experience I've found a full size resonant dipole or a G5RV or better yet, a 94ft ZS6BKW outperforms most verticals and they are cheaper and easier to install.

Let us know how you want to mount the antenna and good luck with whatever you get.

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There are dozens. However, mounting on your chimney is going to present a challenge if you use a vertical that requires ground radials... And most do. Check out the Comet CHA-250B which is very broadbanded and no ground plane. Or consider mounting vertical on the ground with radials at lower cost than chimney.

 

[IdleMonitor]

Would it be worth it to keep the antron 99 for the limited bands it can cover and use another one for the remaining bands?

 

[cabletech]

Contact Larry, KJ7U at kj7u.com (Larry's antennas) He makes some very out standing screw driver antennas and he even has one on his roof that has been there for years.

I have a 2 ft model on my truck I use for 160-6 and I had a friend that got the longer 4 ft model and we put it on the roof of his driveway and he was able to work just about every where with it.

If you go this route, make a 14x14x1/8 steel plate to mount the antenna to or get insulated stand offs, the entire antenna is a radiator and can not touch any ground system.

From the steel plate, attach about 10-20 #14ga wires rangeing from 6ft to 12 ft as a ground plane and a #6 or 8ga that will go down to a 8ft ground rod.

These are a little on the pricey side, but haveing had my for over 8 yrs, I am MORE then happy.

I have been to Larry's and have seen him build this and he does very good work.

The military even has some of them. so they must be good.

 

[dksac2]

The gap "Challanger" vertical I think is great for smaller spaces.
It covers for 2M to 80 M (130 mHz of 80 meters or the 75 meter phone band). It only needs 4 counterpoise radials, 25' each from the base, and they don't have to be streight out at a 90 degree angle from each other to work.

The antenna is a vertical dipole and has got excellent reviews from eHAM.
I just put one up, it required very little space. I have yet to use it because I have my General test is a few weeks, just have my Tech now.

It would be worth looking at, the footprint is small, the antenna is only a foot wide at it's widest point and about 32' tall. The 4 radials are for the 40 meter band only, and I've read where many have had to use shorter one's to be in the center of the phone band on 40 meters, but that I will have to find out when I tune the antenna.

The cost is also very reasonable compared to many others and no need to put down fourty or more 40' to 60' long radials either as most verticals must have to work correctly. (they may not all be 60', but many longer and shorter radials are required for most verticals)

The antenna comes with a pole to put in the ground and the bottom of the antenna sits right at the ground, no need to put it up on a pole of any height above the ground. With a little cement around the pole, they say the antenna is good for 60 MPH winds. I used 4 guy ropes (3/32 Nylon) from just above the middle, they take very little room as we sometimes get some decent winds here, so even the guy rope takes very little room. It just may be the ideal vertical for you. The antenna and the reviews impressed me as well as the fact that it does not have any traps that eat up the signal.
I have no interest in Gap, I'm going off of about 5 pages of reviews on eHam and 95% of the were very good reviews.

My Best, John

 

[IdleMonitor]

Bottom line it still sounds like there is no simple thing for an hf antenna other then a very long dipole. Not as simple as I thought for hf.

Anyone got any pics of what some of these verticals look like. They sound like they're fairly large in size.

 

[vagrant]

I believed I was in the same situation as you are/may be. One of the antennas I tried was a Jetstream JTV680 Vertical. It works, but it seems deaf and that's probably because it is. I have tried it at various heights and coax runs. You don't need a tuner, but even with one it's just not a solution. It's a big compromise antenna because it's wanting to cover 180-6m. Avoid that antenna if you can. I have not tried the other multi-band verticals, so I cannot say if they suffer from the same problem...but why try?

I currently use two antennas that do a great job for me using a Kenwood 480SAT.
1. Solarcon I-MAX 2000 Vertical - I have this 30 feet AGL and it does the business for 17-10 meters.
2. Off Center Fed Inverted V - The lengths are 21' and 45' and runs along the back of my fence. The feed point is 35' AGL and the ends slope down more than 90 degrees from each other, but I recommend you go as high as you can to keep the ends at least 6' above ground (top of fence). That antenna covers 40-6m, and although I have made contacts from 40-6m, I typically use this antenna for 40-17m coverage, as it works best there. These two antennas complement each other well and the 480SAT remembers the antenna setting when I switch bands.

With my property I didn't think I could put up a dipole, but the OCF Inverted V was the perfect solution for me. If you can put up a vertical, you may be able put up an inverted V dipole. What will work for you and your situation is a matter of experimenting, but you may want to consider an OCF Inverted V dipole that can do 40-6m. Most of the action is on those bands and 6m around Summer. By the way, the OCF antenna and the I-MAX 2000 were each under $100.

* I use LMR400 Coax. Don't complain about an antenna later if you didn't use the proper coax to begin with.

 

[LtDoc]

IdleMonitor,
You're right, there's no simple alternative to a 'long' antenna for HF. If it isn't big then it's expensive or complicated and is still a compromise in some way. There's a marked difference between low frequency and higher frequency characteristics (how RF behaves). It's sort of similar to tall people and short people in some ways. The taller people can see further than shorties. But the shorties can get under stuff that the giants are stopped by. Or the giants can get over things that stop the shorties. (Isn't that a terrible analogy? )
So, while a compromise isn't the best performer in the world, it certainly beats not being able to perform at all. There are all kinds of ways to 'get around' limitations. The 'trick' is to find the one that works best for you. Sometimes, imagination can produce some respectable results!
Good luck and have fun.
- 'Doc

 

[mancow]

I have a GAP Challenger. It works pretty much everything from 80-10 meters with no tuner and is 32 ft tall. I put down some cheap wire fencing in a cross on the ground below it as a ground plane. It works great.

 

[dksac2]

The Gap Challenger may be 32' tall, but approx the top 15' of it is just a 1.5 inch pole if even that wide, so in your back yard, your house will cover the parts that stick out and the pole is hardly noticed from the street.
If going with a vertical that works, you will have to have one with some height. Remember, by being tall, it has no traps or anything else to eat up the power fed to it.

John

 

[majoco]

Hustler 18AVT/WB worked well for me as an active Ham in the 80's - 100Watts CW gets into Europe from NZ late afternoon on the grey line. I still have it round the back of the shed just waiting to be put up again...... EPay may still have some used for sale.

 

[ab3a]

There is a tendency among many to attempt to put up an antenna that does everything.

May I humbly suggest you get an antenna that does one band well. Learn about how that band performs. Right now, the ten meter band is a good bet for the next couple of years at least. When it opens you can work the world with just a couple watts.

Ten meters is a good band for several reasons. If you like FM repeaters, they are on the high side of the band. There are satellite downlinks on this band. There are numerous beacons. And there are all kinds of interesting propagation modes.

It will keep you very curious and busy at all hours of the day and night (no joke, on sunspot cycle 21 I used to talk locally during the night hours and get interrupted by people on the other side of the earth in VK land...

I think you might enjoy the band, for its fascinating propagation, if nothing else. Oh, and antenna efficiency with this shorter wavelength isn't bad...

 

[zz0468]

As a few previous posts indicate, a vertical needs an elaborate ground system to be effective. The commercial verticals advertised as needing no ground or no counterpoise don't work well.

You might consider an open wire fed dipole, fed with a tuner. It will be effective on multiple bands, does not require an elaborate ground system, and you can size it to fit whatever space is available. Depending on the tuner, it might actually radiate on the lower bands. Configure it as an inverted vee and it will take up even less real estate. I use an approximate 40 meter size dipole on 80 and 160 meters with excellent results. Use of tuned feeders on a balanced antenna solves all sorts of problems.

One idea I've considered, but never attempted, was a 1/4 CB ground plane with an remote autotuner immediately at the base of the antenna. It would be excellent on 10-15 meters, and probably decent at 20 meters . It's likely to load ok on 40 meters, but wouldn't be real efficient.

 

[mancow]

The groundplane idea you mentioned does work fairly well. I've tried it. And yes, a good ground is essential with those verticals. I got a few rolls of some galvanized wire fencing at Home Depot fairly cheap. I used yard staples to keep it down. It didn't take long to disappear into the lawn. The antenna was used and was purchased from a friend that complained it didn't work well for him but I don't think he had much of a ground system installed, if at all.

 

[rfradioconsult]

First law of HF verticals: "Vertical Antennas radiate equally poorly in all directions"