10' mast

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I have a 25' tower secured at the bottom in concrete and bolted to the peak which is 16' above ground level. It also has a steel bracket. bolted to the house at the half way mark. At the top of the tower I have a 10' mast / 1 1/4" dia. 16 gage steel. and then my 19'-10" High Gain antenna with 3 - 9' radials.
So from ground level to the top of my antenna is approx. 52'-10". My question is I would like to add more mast without guy wires. How many 10' pieces of mast would be safe to add. I can't find any info
on this subject. Any info is much appreciated.
 

K4EET

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I have a 25' tower secured at the bottom in concrete and bolted to the peak which is 16' above ground level. It also has a steel bracket. bolted to the house at the half way mark. At the top of the tower I have a 10' mast / 1 1/4" dia. 16 gage steel. and then my 19'-10" High Gain antenna with 3 - 9' radials.
So from ground level to the top of my antenna is approx. 52'-10". My question is I would like to add more mast without guy wires. How many 10' pieces of mast would be safe to add. I can't find any info
on this subject. Any info is much appreciated.

Back in your other thread on 23 Septemeber 2015 in http://forums.radioreference.com/amateur-radio-equipment/320685-yaesu-ft101e.html, you mentioned that your Hy-Gain antenna was a CL2 (Model 473). That CB antenna's operation manual is found at http://www.cbtricks.com/ant_manuals/hygain/model_473/graphics/hy-gain_473_clr-2.pdf. Amazingly enough, in the specifications, it neither says what the wind loading is nor does it specify power handling.

First on power handling. The limiting factor will be the base-loaded coil. CB radio is 5 watts for legal transmissions although I know equipment exists that can push an illegal 100 watts or more. Knowing that you have a Yaesu FT-101E, IF you plan to use that rig on 11 meters illegally, that radio will probably fry the coil due to its high output power.

As for wind loading, the antenna specifications say it has a 75 mph (120.69 kmph) wind survival rating. With you being in the far north in Canada, I don't know what amount of ice loading you will experience which is a HUGE factor in survivability in high winds. With the 10 foot mast extension, the wind loading goes up exponentially with ice loading so the wind survivability may drop to as low as 25 mph (40.23 kmph). So I would be extremely cautious of adding ANY extensions; including the 10 foot pole that you now have. You don't want that thing piercing your roof if it comes down or somebody may get killed inside or outside your house.

You will need to call Telex/Hy-Gain if you want more information on wind survivability with icing conditions. Since they are a reputable company, they will probably tell you to NOT use any kind of a mast above the tower top based on your location and projected maximum wind speeds. You'll have to see what they say. Also ask them what the maximum RF power handling is for that antenna. I suspect it will not be able to handle the Yaesu FT-101E's maximum power output...

As several of us said in the other thread of yours, we hope that you are NOT going to transmit on the 11 Meter Band with your Yaesu FT-101E. If you do get your ham ticket, the ham antennas can handle much more input RF power than CB antennas. Also, you never did reply in the thread as to what was the outcome of your Yaesu FT-101E transmit testing once you got the tubes to glow. I helped you to test your rig and hoped that it would legally be operated on the ham bands once you became licensed.

Sorry for the long post but there were a lot of things to discuss. Antenna and towers are serious structures that need to be properly designed to make sure they don't fail in adverse weather. You also have the added complication that the CL2 Hy-Gain antenna was NOT designed for the high power output of the Yaesu FT-101E. With that, I'll sit down and shut up and await your reply. I do hope that you will study for your ham license this winter because ham radio has sooooooo many advantages over CB radio.

73 from your American friend, Dave K4EET
 
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Hi Dave,

Thanks for the info. I will stay with one 10' mast section. What is a decent antenna for this rig!

Have no fear as I am not going to transmit until I aquire a ham license. I will only be receiving. If I just receive will I damage my High Gain antenna? I also have a Grant xl that I use with the High Gain.I have not been able to test the radio since having the tubes light. Yard work is priority at the moment plus flu season is here. I will let you know as soon as I am able to finish testing.
Again I thank you and Craig for all your help.
Gerald
 

K4EET

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Hi Dave,

Thanks for the info. I will stay with one 10' mast section. What is a decent antenna for this rig!

Have no fear as I am not going to transmit until I aquire a ham license. I will only be receiving. If I just receive will I damage my High Gain antenna? ...

With respect to staying with the single 10 foot mast section, I think that is a wise move. With the tip of the antenna at 50-some feet, you are plenty high enough for good CB radio reception. From a legal viewpoint, I don't know what Canada's regulations might be (if any) for maximum CB radio antenna height. Also, remember that the further above you are from surrounding structures and foliage like trees, the higher wind velocities you will encounter. And not to forget, the survival rating for the Hy-Gain CL2 CB antenna is 75 mph (120.69 kmph) wind speed WITHOUT any snow and/or ice loading.

I will keep you in my prayers while you seek to obtain your Amateur Radio ticket. After all and you probably don't know this, in addition to the daytime job I'm retired from, I was a licensed minister during my other "free-time" hours. LOL :lol:

As for a good ham antenna, let's discuss that in a new thread in the "Amateur Radio Antennas" forum here on Radio Reference. That is a whole other animal and deserves its own thread. OK? Finally, from the above quote, if you ONLY receive with your Yaesu FT-101E transceiver, you will not damage your antenna. Just keep the microphone unplugged and leave the MOX/PTT/VOX switch to set to PTT. Received signals will be heard on all bands but just not optimally since there will be an antenna mis-match for the ham bands. Don't forget to vary the PRESELECT knob for loudest received audio. Try it out and let me know if you have any questions.

... I also have a Grant xl that I use with the High Gain. ...

The Uniden Grant-XL is a derivative from the "President's" line of CB radios by Uniden who also built Cobra radios. The Uniden Grant-XL is a nice AM/LSB/USB CB radio. Since it has a built-in SWR meter, be sure to check the SWR on your Hy-Gain CL2 antenna and make sure the SWR is lower than 1.8 to 1 on CB Channel 20 (roughly the middle of the CB band). Any higher than that would indicate that the antenna needs to be tuned per the instructions. Let us know what your measured SWR turns out to be.

... I have not been able to test the radio since having the tubes light. Yard work is priority at the moment plus flu season is here. I will let you know as soon as I am able to finish testing. Again I thank you and Craig for all your help. Gerald

In your other thread, you have successfully finished testing the 40 meter band and I have completed the instructions for testing everything else. I'll be watching your other thread to see if you have any questions there too.

Finally, don't forget to start a new thread in the "Amateur Radio Antennas" forum here on Radio Reference. Mention that you have an 80-40-20-15-10 Meter Yaesu FT-101E transceiver and that you would like to discuss what some ideas are for antennas. You'll get a lot of different ideas but at least its a start. I already have an antenna in mind but I'll save it until you start the new thread.

73, Dave K4EET
 

KC4RAF

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As Dave has posted, not a great idea to add

more mast up there. You will sooner or later find a mess sticking through you roof or on the ground and possibly some one getting hurt or worse. Guy wires are very important. You may get some one to tell you go ahead, everything will be fine. If you choose to listen to them, so be it, just don't say you weren't warned.
 

K4EET

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rafdav, thanks for reinforcing my caution to Gerald. I too feel the mast is high enough and quite possibly, the Hy-Gain CL2 antenna would work better closer to the ground (i.e., do away with the 10 foot mast). Without getting in to a lot of antenna theory, even though the antenna has ground radials for a minimal counterpoise, it is vertically polarized which "loves" true Earth as a ground counterpoise.

On the other hand, a horizontally polarized antenna like a dipole, "likes" to be as high above Earth as possible.

Of course, both have to do with the "take-off angle" of the signal and how the signal interacts with the ionosphere, but that would be getting in to too much antenna theory. Let's apply the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) and say the arrangement is fine as-is and one would probably not notice any difference if the 10 foot mast were not there. Additionally, a lower antenna height would offer more protection from wind gusts being lower to the ground and shielded by structures and foilage. After all, it is a vertical antenna... (not to mention that it can only survive a 75 mph (120.69 kmph) wind speed WITHOUT any snow and/or ice loading).

73, Dave K4EET
 
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