Homeowner Associations and AARL PRB'S

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Fireboat03

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I am a member of an association and I was hearing that there is going to be a bill that is going to be passed saying that the HOA's have no say so on what kind of antenna that you can put on your roof anymore.

PRB-1


Does anybody know what's going on with this new law if its going to be passed soon?

I had an antenna guy tell me to hold off and look up the PRB's on this issue
 

Fireboat03

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So what's the difference between an amateur antenna and a scanner antenna on the roof? Nothing. I just heard that there is a law going thru that limits what HOA's can say whats on your roof anymore.

Just seeing if anybody knows anything related to this bill being passed
 

Blackswan73

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So what's the difference between an amateur antenna and a scanner antenna on the roof? Nothing. I just heard that there is a law going thru that limits what HOA's can say whats on your roof anymore.

Just seeing if anybody knows anything related to this bill being passed
A big difference. Amateur radio is protected by Federal law. And an amateur license is Federal license that gives the holder the right to operate an amateur station. HOA rules outlawing amateur antennas is putting the HOA above Federal law. Local law is never to overrule Federal law.
 

Fireboat03

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So if I put up an amateur antenna for HAM radio use then the HOA has no right to tell me to take down my antenna then?
 

rk911

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A big difference. Amateur radio is protected by Federal law. And an amateur license is Federal license that gives the holder the right to operate an amateur station. HOA rules outlawing amateur antennas is putting the HOA above Federal law. Local law is never to overrule Federal law.

the codes, covenants and restrictions (CCRs) put in place by an HOA (home owner's association) are not laws. when one buys a home in an HOA all of the CCRs must be disclosed to the buyer before closing. this is a contractual agreement between private parties. PRB-1 (Private Radio Bureau) essentially says that local governments are required to reasonably accommodate Amateur Radio installations. PRB-1 has no effect on HOA CCRs. HOAs are not units of local government.

A bill has been introduced in the US House that would require the FCC to apply the “reasonable accommodation” three-part test of the PRB-1 federal pre-emption policy to private land-use restrictions. HR.4969, the “Amateur Radio Parity Act of 2014” was introduced on June 25 at the request of the ARRL. If the measure passes the 113th Congress, it would require the FCC, within 120 days of the Bill’s passage, to amend the Part 97 Amateur Service rules to apply PRB-1 coverage to include homeowners’ association regulations and deed restrictions, often referred to as “covenants, conditions, and restrictions” (CC&Rs). Presently, PRB-1 only applies to state and local zoning laws and ordinances. (source: Amateur Radio Parity Act).

If this bill, referred to by some as PRB-2 although it has not been so designated by the FCC at this time, is not passed before the end of the 113th congress in January 2017 it must be re-introduced.

personally, I am opposed to this legislation as the federal government should not intervene in a contract freely entered into between private parties.
 
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KE0GXN

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So if I put up an amateur antenna for HAM radio use then the HOA has no right to tell me to take down my antenna then?

If the Parity Act is enacted hams would be afforded "reasonable" accommodation.....

If you are not a ham, I guess you could get your ticket and put some scanner antennas on your roof, as I doubt anyone would know the difference. Much like the folks who get their tickets in Florida and other places just so they can travel with scanners in their cars.

Some hams are for the parity act, others are not. I get both sides of the issue, however I have chosen to support it. The ARRL is making a big push on the issue. I used their blanket letter they provided members to send to my representatives, imploring them to support the bill.

I don't live in an HOA sub-division, but feel hams should be afforded reasonable accommodations. Their is a ham in my State trying to get a State law passed for parity in Missouri, regardless of what happens with PRB-1.

Interesting interview KN4AQ did of the operator (KE0KZ) on his Ham Radio Now show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWBJIqbJyEI
 
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kc2kth

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I completely support the ARRLs efforts in this matter, in my opinion many of the HOA agreements have been put together with zero understanding of communications and most enforcing those agreements wouldn't know a scanner antenna from an 80m dipole from a tv antenna. These agreements are basically broad nets cast to ensure everything looks sterile in these communities with no consideration to how people choose to spend their time at home. Placing contractual restrictions on a home that I'm purchasing outright seems absurd yet many people opt to accept this practice for many reasons, some of them perfectly understandable. In my opinion the idea of an HOA should abolished. Maybe if people stop agreeing to them we wont need the ARRL to fight these battles in court.
 

KE0GXN

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Yeah me too. I used to live in an HOA type sub-division before I was a ham, so I know what its like to have "restrictions" . At the time I was just a scanner listener and used an indoor set-up, I couldn't imagine having to deal with it now that I am ham.

Problem is you will have those that will argue that folks like us should not live in or buy in an HOA area and so we have no right to ask for change because we choose to enter into a contract.

I get that side of it too. As for me, if I ever moved from where I am at now (unincorporated area in the county with zero restrictions) I would never live in an HOA area.If folks would stop buying in those places things would change, problem is for every ham there is another guy who thinks, a 80m dipole will ruin his property value or interfere with him watching his favorite sit-com :roll:

It is what is..... I am glad no matter what happens it will not affect me. However I will do all I can support those that are affected and will also support the efforts of those within my State who are seeking change and accommodations at the State level.
 

Fireboat03

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Do you hold a valid amateur radio license issued to you by the Federal Communications Commission?

Yes I do. I hold a general ham license. Will that do any help on helping my case when it comes to the HOA on putting up a small antenna on the roof?
 
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DaveNF2G

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Post #7 in this thread by rk911 is the most accurate and useful in the entire thread so far. Almost everything else is just ranting and misinformation.
 

rk911

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I completely support the ARRLs efforts in this matter, in my opinion many of the HOA agreements have been put together with zero understanding of communications and most enforcing those agreements wouldn't know a scanner antenna from an 80m dipole from a tv antenna. These agreements are basically broad nets cast to ensure everything looks sterile in these communities with no consideration to how people choose to spend their time at home. Placing contractual restrictions on a home that I'm purchasing outright seems absurd yet many people opt to accept this practice for many reasons, some of them perfectly understandable. In my opinion the idea of an HOA should abolished. Maybe if people stop agreeing to them we wont need the ARRL to fight these battles in court.

buying a home in an HOA is a voluntary act. if one doesn't like the rules of the HOA then either don't buy the home or get elected to the board and change the rules. when we bought our current home we specifically looked at homes NOT in an HOA as we wanted a home where I could have my antennas as well as park our MH. we made those conditions clear to the realtor and that's all he showed us.
 

N9JIG

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buying a home in an HOA is a voluntary act. if one doesn't like the rules of the HOA then either don't buy the home or get elected to the board and change the rules. when we bought our current home we specifically looked at homes NOT in an HOA as we wanted a home where I could have my antennas as well as park our MH. we made those conditions clear to the realtor and that's all he showed us.

I agree. When we bought our home I checked into the HOA restrictions ahead of time and knew I wouldn't be allowed external antennas. The area was worth it to us. I dealt with it by installing antennas in my attic.

When you buy a home it is up to you to check for any pre-existing conditions and covenants, they are a contract that you agree to when you buy the house.

As for new restrictions, they should allow grandfathered exclusions. If the rules allowed for a tower and you built one in compliance they should not be able to change the rules and force you to remove it. They can prevent your new neighbor from building one or for you to extend it but as long as it was in compliance when built they are stuck with it.
 

AK9R

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I just heard that there is a law going thru that limits what HOA's can say whats on your roof anymore.
You may have heard incomplete information. The bill, which others have referenced, would require that HOAs give amateur radio operators reasonable accommodation when it comes to putting up amateur radio antennas that would otherwise violate the HOAs rules. The bill, if passed, would not provide amateur radio operators carte blanche with regard to amateur radio antennas.

Note that the groups which organize and support HOAs are spreading the false information that these bills would completely overrule the HOAs. This is not true, but it is part of the scare tactic they are using.

So if I put up an amateur antenna for HAM radio use then the HOA has no right to tell me to take down my antenna then?
Your HOA has the rights conveyed to them by the covenants and restrictions that you agreed to when you bought the property. If you did not explicitly agree to them, you implicitly agreed to them when you signed the paperwork to transfer title of the property to your name if the rules were legally attached to the property deed. As others have stated, these bills would not eliminate antenna rules, but would require that HOAs work with amateur radio operators with regard to amateur radio antennas.

These bills are very specific to amateur radio antennas, not scanner antennas or CB antennas. They are worded that way because the ARRL's lobbyists worked with Congressional staffers on behalf of amateur radio.
 

gewecke

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A big difference. Amateur radio is protected by Federal law. And an amateur license is Federal license that gives the holder the right to operate an amateur station. HOA rules outlawing amateur antennas is putting the HOA above Federal law. Local law is never to overrule Federal law.
. Well its not likely your HOA natzis are likely to study up on the the difference between a ham antenna or scanner antenna since many can be used for both, such as Discones so no reason to be worried. :wink: 73, n9zas
 
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