Antenna's, Grounding, and Bonding to other Grounding Systems

Status
Not open for further replies.

michy

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
Messages
77
Location
Edmonton, AB
I'm trying to determine the best (safest) way to ground some new, existing (and future) antennas on our roof.

(this post could be under any forum area, amateur radio, commercial, etc), but the purposes of our antennas is actually both for commercial frequencies and the amateur radio bands).

In researching this, I find there is a lot of confusion, and differences of opinion, as well as NEC, and/or CDN electrical code that is discussed.

btw.. my understanding of NEC and CDN electrical code is (primary requirements - I know there are others):

1) all grounding systems must be bonded together
2) there should be a 6ft/2m clearance between feeder lines (ie:coax) and grounding conductors.
3) coax/line feeders must have arrestors at a point closest to where they enter a building.

To focus on the bonding part... and question... why should we bond our antenna grounding system(s) to our home electrical system grounding.

This is the logic (and my opinion) that tells me why:
(btw, while I have some electrical background, I'm no scientist :) )

1) You never want high potential (especially > 1Kv)/voltage between grounding systems (because that can obviously lead to damage, fire etc).

2) The question of how do you get voltage difference between grounding systems... this is how I see it:

a) when lightning hits a specific location, the ground becomes a large resistor over hundreds, if not thousands of feet where the voltage potential between varying distances, can be deadly/damaging. One term they use, is step voltage, or step potential. If you were walking near a tree that was hit by lightning, you could theoretically be subject to thousands of volts between your legs which would/could kill you.

Lightning - People/animals:

Step voltages 1

Step voltages 2


b) so assuming the ground becomes a huge resistor that dissipates the energy over milliseconds, with different very high voltages across two points on the ground (and higher voltage across longer distances between those points), if you had a ground rod on one side of your house, and you electrical system on the opposite side, as the lightning voltage, you could end up with very high (and capable of arcing across what you may consider not very conductive materials) damaging/destructive voltages between those two grounds which would be finding conductive paths.

Therefore, if your the antenna for your radio had a separate ground, the outer sheath would ground the chassis to that antenna ground. If you had another AC system ground (unbounded to your antenna ground) from a wall receptacle also ground the same chassis, in the event of a lightning strike, this could be the point where those two grounding systems, with potentially damaging voltage meets and arcs (with obvious results). This is just one point where this damage could occur where two or more grounding systems that exist in a house or any conductive material that could experience "step voltage" or differences in voltage that can occur between two points during a lightning strike.


The same dissipation of voltages in the ground occur when a high voltage transmission line comes in contact with the earth. The ground becomes a large resistor, with almost cylindrical differences in voltage between two points as it dissipates.

Step voltages from downed transmission lines 1

Step voltages from downed transmission lines 2

When I went to college (decades ago) taking electrical courses, the instructor talked of step voltages, and mentioned that if you absolutely had to move on the ground, to hop on one foot, rather than walk or run.

To summarize, the more ground rods you set up in a given area, around your house, or for different ground systems, and bond them together, along with even other large metal surfaces, you force the ground around high voltage from a lightning strike (or nearby one), to absorb the energy, rather than your house or building.

Perhaps my posting may be disagreed on by some, I haven't seen too may articles that are not technical jargon, and simply described so most can understand it.


Btw.. my next research, is how 90 degree bends affect a grounding conductor from an antenna to a ground rod. (sometimes its hard not to have bends in it).
 

Thayne

Member
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
2,145
Your summary is very good; the NEC does require the bonding, in newer codes it requires a bonding accessible point to the electrical service ground. Still for antennas, they should have their own grounding electrode & conductor preferably as short as possible and as straight as possible. ( No sharp bends)
Also #6 copper wire is big enough to connect to any ground rod, like you said they need to be bonded together and the more the merrier is great.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
23,857
Location
Roaming the Intermountain West
As you've stated, your specific local building/electrical code is the law. Not always "perfect", as they do get occasionally updated, but if you follow what's in the code, you are reasonably well protected, and the building inspector/insurance provider won't have issue with it.

A great source of additional data is from Harger. They sell components for grounding systems, and have some excellent documentation regarding the hows, why's and code requirements:
Harger Specification Information
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
You have a good understanding of the physics, Michy. I will point out that grounding a system for safety from shocks is on thing- successfully grounding against lightning is something else.. ..
.
Of course you must follow the codes (ie: NEC) - but that does not necessarily protect you against the static (lightning) issues.
.
Here is a booklet by the IEEE that I am fond of passing out when this question arises. In it is the the concept of a 'floating ground' -- one we use all the time in our installations.
.
.
http://lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lhm/IEEE_Guide.pdf
.
.
.
Take a look at it and see if you might incorporate them into your situation....
.
.......................... CF :)
.
_____________________________________________
.
PS- this is a popular topic- and not long ago it was delve'd into at some length on these Forums.... I recalled this one-
.
https://forums.radioreference.com/amateur-radio-general-discussion/358150-ground-question.html
.
Though your understanding, Michy, transcends the general awareness of most- these experiences of others might also be useful--- I think in there, there might be a recount my of experience with a ground loop-turn'd-resistor -- that turn'd ugly and caused lightning to blow out a wall... :)
 
Last edited:

WD0AKZ

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
32
When I was first licensed I put up a 15m Inverted-V supported by a wooden pole on the roof of my house and ran the coax down to my Heathkit HW-8. When I was not using the rig I got used to disconnecting the antenna and just letting it lay on the floor. One night while my wife and I were getting supper ready, I heard what sounded like bacon frying, it was coming from my shack. It was winter so it was dark out here in Minnesota and when I went into my shack I saw what looked like a sparkling blue/green snake on the floor….. it was my coax. Apparently the wind was causing a static buildup in on my antenna and it was discharging into our carpet. Since then I have always tried to follow all the grounding/bonding codes/procedures and never had any related issues.

Now I’m in a position that maybe a few of you are in or will be in the future… a multi story aluminum clad apartment (a Co-Op in my case). I am on the top (3rd) floor corner unit with a 1:7 AutoTransformer wound on a FT140-43 Toroid feeding a 66’ 40m EFHW wire sloping down to a tree from my aluminum encrusted deck. This transformer is wound with a 2T Bifilar Primary and a 14T Secondary so both the P & S have one leg connected to the coax shield. I do not have the ability to install grounding rods and run heavy bonding wires as I did in my houses (and I have to be “Stealthy” about the antenna). My aluminum guard rail is screwed at numerous points to the aluminum siding and I have removed, cleaned the contact points, and reinstalled all of them. My EFHW AutoTransformer coax runs about 13’ into a Common Mode Choke (11T RG58 on 2x FT240-52 Toroids) and the shield of this CMC coax is bonded to the deck rail then continues on through a 2’ piece of RG316 into my apartment where it connects to 50’ RG8x to my Elecraft KX3 (I run QRP). I measured about 500 ohm between my CMC bond and the Ground terminal of my deck utility outlet and about the same at the radio end of the coax. My KX3 runs on a 13.4v DC floating supply and is not grounded.

Any static buildup on the antenna should be dissipated via the CMC shield bonding to the deck /building aluminum and it’s ~500 ohm leakage to the utility ground. As for a direct lightning strike to the tree my antenna is guyed off to I would suspect that the Davis RF POLYS-26 wire I’m using for the antenna would act as a fusible link and …. Poof?

I think for my situation, what I am using and what I have done will provide adequate protection for myself, my radio, and my building. I suppose that the various codes are technically still applicable to me but I don’t see any practical way of implementing them. What else can folks like me ( and maybe you) do?

Tnx for any input.

George
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
I read thru your antenna description George, and I don't think there is a lot more you can *reasonably* do to protect your station than you've already in place.
.
In your case, you are not going for protection against lightning - if for some freak chance it should strike your antenna, or the supporting tree- that's just bad luck and nothing you did will have matter'd an iota.
.
I see any potential problem as similar to the one you experienced with your 15 metre antenna- static build up or an induced voltage spike from a nearby lightning strike. Since your station's power supply "floats" above any AC lines, you are isolated from most spikes coming in that way... if I have read that correctly. If you are connected to the lines, that becomes another issue- which may be addressed partially with a surge protector at the wall jack. Running it off an isolated battery would be best.
.
By grounding one end of your antenna to the building's siding, you have, in effect, installed your station within a large Faraday cage. You should not see any static build up on your antenna.
.
Whenever I look at these situation, I also look at any nearby power lines and other more likely lightning targets. What are their chances of being hit?... your antenna sounds quite off Lightning's Radar. I'd just do the common sense thing of disconnecting the coax when not in use, and unplugging anything from the AC lines. Adding ground rods for a run of 3 stories will do nothing for lightning.... that long run becomes just one big resistor unless its something like 2' copper pipe.... :)
.
_________________________________
.
Your tale of the arc'ing dipole is unfortunately quite common in my circles. I have seen many antenna arrays sparking away during some of the most innocent of moments- like you said, a dry wind will do it. In the mountains where I live, St. Elmo's Fire is often seen off any pointy metal object when the air is highly charged. I am convinced John Denver - in his song 'Colorado Rocky Mountain High' was referring to St. Elmo's along with lightning when he sang "I've seen fire in sky...." we see it frequently here.
..........And its nothing for me to hear the auto tuner snapping away on my work Blazer's HF antenna as I drive out in the desert, or up a mountain....
.
As I said, I think you've done all that is reasonable.... I'd worry about something else.... :)
.
.
....................CF
.
.
 

WD0AKZ

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
32
CF - "Since your station's power supply "floats" above any AC lines, you are isolated from most spikes coming in that way... if I have read that correctly. If you are connected to the lines, that becomes another issue- which may be addressed partially with a surge protector at the wall jack. Running it off an isolated battery would be best."

Thank you for your reply.

I was wrong in my above statement. The previous station supply I used was a 14v @ 2A laptop wall pack and it’s DC output was isolated from the utility ground, but I just checked the 3A Dell one I’m using now and it’s negative is at utility ground. So using this supply (and any computer I/O’s) puts my KX3 at utility ground potential and may under some conditions put me in a ground loop situation noise wise with the building siding CMC bonding, but at 5w CW/10w SSB my transmit side still sounds clean. Utility power to my station desk and computer is first run through a good surge protector/filter so at least that side is (should be) clean. You are right, the best isolation would be running a battery (which I can easily do) and no computer (How am I suppose to Log?? Wait a minute, I think I still have a book around here somewhere… I hope I kept the instructions).

“What are their chances of being hit?... your antenna sounds quite off Lightning's Radar.”

Yup, no overhead utilities and the other trees are taller than my antenna.

Tnx agn for the reply

George
 

arkieguide

Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
63
Location
Arkansas
Grounding is lie lightning ground as direct and short as possible. I have 3 ground rods on mu radio ground grid. 1 at my antenna, 1 at my electrical service, and 1 half way between them.
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
The problem with multiple ground rods all connected together is the unequal voltages that can be produced along that interconnecting line, and all the secondary tie lines into that system. Lightning, direct or indirect hits, produces many secondary spikes, seeking alternative paths into the earth. If you provide multiple paths, (ie; ground rods) you can develope tremendous voltage potentials between these separate grounds rods, even if they are all tied together.
.
For example, calculate the voltage potential of a typical 3u second strike of 7000A across a 0.2 ohm, 40 foot length of copper wire connecting two ground rods together-- all that current is not going to flow down the closest rod- its going to earth thru any and all things connected in that series. One of those multiple paths may well be thru the green wire of the AC power line of your power supply, and another, the end of your separate ground'd antenna coax connector at your radio.
.
That's a potential of several- tens- of thousand volts-- it will blow up your radios.
.
You want all that static surge to exit thru one and only one ground point. If its a radio installation, that point ideally is a common bulkhead grounding plate for all the "lightning arrestors," powerline surge protectors, equipment AC grounds, power company grounds..... everything bonds to that common panel-- and that panel has the bigg'ist, direct'ist, shortest path to a Good earth connection. Personally I think #6 copper wire is not enuff- the resistance is too high and it can't carry enuff current to limit those micro second voltage spikes. We use 2 inch copper braid'd 3/8" thick straps.
.
I know, it would seem common sense that the more ground rods the better- but it doesn't apply here- just the opposite. Any one who as seen up front and personal what lightning can do will give this force of nature the utmost respect.... believe me, there is no room here for Mickey Mousing- approach this like a scientist ...... :)
.
.
............................CF
.
.
 
Last edited:

majoco

Stirrer
Joined
Dec 25, 2008
Messages
4,282
Location
New Zealand
In the grand scheme of things, if you get a direct strike to any part of your antenna system, no matter how many ground rods you have connected together to your incoming power supply box, the whole lot is going up in smoke.

You may be able to protect yourself from nearby strikes or wayward ground currents induced from the strike, but that's about all.

A good few years ago, I was still in primary school, our church spire was struck - it had a spike on the top to attract the lightning and a copper bar about 2'' x 1'' all down the outside to the ground. It worked, no damage was done to the church or the spire. However the grounding conductor was gone - all that was left was a few of the clips that held it to the spire and a great black and blue mark.
 

arkieguide

Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
63
Location
Arkansas
Yes I bonded them all together. I have installed ground grids with 20 - 30 grd rods and they were always bonded.Even in Lightning grounds all grd. rods were bonded together.
 

arkieguide

Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
63
Location
Arkansas
One more I have installed lightning protection on several 5 story building with equipment on the roof. we did install a ground grid of multiple grd. rods, but only one down wire from the roof and it does tie to the grd. grid.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top