APRS Station List, Location Data

[KB6PAI]

I have a FTM-350AR (base) and a VX-8DR (handheld), both with GPS.
Also have UI-View with a map program.
When transmitting from the handheld, I can see my location on the map
and on the UI-View station list, but without speed, distance or altitude data.
I do not pop-up on the base display or show up on the station list.
The handheld, base and UI-View all have the same APRS and list filters and squelch setting (5).
I would like to use the NAV function on the FTM-350, with speed, distance and altitude.
I can see that data from most stations and intermittently from a targeted station.
My handheld receives a continuous GPS signal.
The handheld is set to Digi Path OFF.
The station lists on the handheld and base are somewhat similar,
but the UI-View station list is almost totally different.
Only some of the stations on the base list will pop-up on the base display.

 

[K4APR]

For starters, what kind of RF/TNC setup are you using with UI-View?

 

[KB6PAI]

UI-View gets its data from the Yaesu FTM-350 somehow.
I did not have to set up a TNC nor am I familiar with the term TNC.
UI-View works perfectly for all stations.
The problem is that my FTM-350 pop-up display and station list
does not recognize my handheld VX-8DR as an APRS station,
yet transfers my handheld position to UI-View.

 

[K4APR]

UI-View gets its data from the Yaesu FTM-350 somehow.

Somehow? You must have it connected to your computer in some way. Did you purchase a serial cable? Are you using USB conversion at some point? It doesn't magically jump from the radio into your computer.

I did not have to set up a TNC nor am I familiar with the term TNC.

The TNC (Terminal Node Controller) is the 1200 baud modem that allows you to send/receive packet. In this case, APRS formatted packets. The TNC is built into your FTM-350 and at a minimum needs to be enabled by the user.

UI-View works perfectly for all stations.

OK, so at SOME point you had to select a com port and transfer baud rate in UI-View's comm setup in order for it to receive packets from the FTM-350 over the serial link.

The problem is that my FTM-350 pop-up display and station list does not recognize my handheld VX-8DR as an APRS station, yet transfers my handheld position to UI-View.

It sounds to me like the handheld is NOT sending a position packet, rather a status packet. I'm not sure, but some system will ignore a station UNTIL it has a position packet. It then lists the station in the station list and displays it. I had a VX-8 and a VX-8GR at one time, but they were so limited I sold them off for my own homemade gear, as well as the superior Kenwood APRS radios. I have never owned an FTM-350, so I can't tell you what the station list behavior is.

I can tell you this. ANY APRS functionality that was added to the Yaesu radios were obviously an afterthought. If they really wanted to make these radios APRS capable and compete with the Kenwood's, they would have implemented the functions in a whole different way and made the radios much more usable to the APRS user.

 

[KB6PAI]

If UI-View dynamically tracks my handheld
and displays the correct position,coordinates and call sign on the PC map display,
does that mean the handheld is sending a position packet (as opposed to status packet)?
Can I assume that the distance,bearing and speed is calculated in the FTM-350
from the position packets and the base GPS data
and sent via the USB cable to the PC, running UI-View?
Is there another packet that I have to enable in the handheld, base or PC?

 

[K4APR]

Going by what my Yaesu VX8 and VX8GR did, when it received a packet from a station AND decoded it, the radio would emit a short two tone beep to let me know. Does the FTM-350 do this on a properly decoded packet? If so, are you getting this on the FTM-350 when you send a packet from the handheld? If you are, I would say the packets are being decoded by the FTM-350, but I can't tell you why the callsign is not showing up in the station list.

Ah, something just occured to me! Are you using the same callsign, without an SSID on either unit? For example, you have KB6PAI programmed in BOTH the handheld and the mobile? If so, then the FTM-350 could be seeing packets from the handheld, but it might be spoofed into thinking it's a packet from it'self. If you do have them programmed this way, assign each one an SSID. Such as KB6PAI-8 on the handheld and KB8PAI-9 on the mobile.

Edit: Also, to answer your question about the bearing and speed of the moving station. I would say no. I would expect the FTM-350 to rely 100% on the data sent by the handheld and simply extract that information for display. What the FTM-350 WOULD calculate is the distance and bearing that the moving station is from the FTM-350. It does this simply by calculating the distance between the known two points and then it can determine bearing.

 

[Jay911]

Here's a step that will help us greatly.

What callsigns/SSIDs are you using for your base and your handheld?

I tried to look up any iteration of KB6PAI on aprs.fi, but I found nothing. If you have ever made a successful packet to the APRS-IS network, it should show up on aprs.fi.

 

[jeepsandradios]

you also need a location programmed in your base radio...cant tell you how far away it is if it doesn't know where you are to start with.

 

[K4APR]

Here's a step that will help us greatly.

What callsigns/SSIDs are you using for your base and your handheld?

That was my whole point of this statement in my previous post:

Ah, something just occured to me! Are you using the same callsign, without an SSID on either unit? For example, you have KB6PAI programmed in BOTH the handheld and the mobile? If so, then the FTM-350 could be seeing packets from the handheld, but it might be spoofed into thinking it's a packet from it'self. If you do have them programmed this way, assign each one an SSID. Such as KB6PAI-8 on the handheld and KB8PAI-9 on the mobile.

 

[K4APR]

you also need a location programmed in your base radio...cant tell you how far away it is if it doesn't know where you are to start with.

I guess I was making the assumption that his FTM-350 had the internal GPS AND it has a position fix.

You what assume does...

 

[jeepsandradios]

Yup I was unsure also. I know I had this issue with my Kenwood one day until I realized the GPS got unplugged !

 

[KB6PAI]

Changing the CallSign/SSID made no difference.
KB6PAI-9 on both base and handheld worked fine for UI-View. GPS is on and working on both.
I noticed that some other stations will show up correctly on UI-View,
but not trigger the base APRS pop-up display or show up on the station list.
Here are two UI-View screenshots of two station list details, K6MAP-1 and K6MAP-3.
K6MAP-1 does not trigger the base APRS, K6MAP-3 works fine in all respects.

 

[KB6PAI]

Finally got it to work,
I had assumed that the handheld was recognized as a mobile station (MOVING Beacon Type)
when it was actually recognized as a Mic Encoder Station (Mic-E Beacon Type),
which I had filtered out.
UI-View had my handheld listed in the MOVING list.

 

[AK9R]

...when it was actually recognized as a Mic Encoder Station (Mic-E Beacon Type), which I had filtered out.

ALL of the APRS radios from Kenwood and Yaesu send APRS position reports as Mic-E encoded beacons and they can decode Mic-E beacons from other stations.

 

[K4APR]

Changing the CallSign/SSID made no difference.
KB6PAI-9 on both base and handheld worked fine for UI-View.

I can just about assure you that running the same SSID on BOTH will not work as designed. The reason I think it appears to work with UI-View is that UI-View doesn't care what callsign you have have programmed into the radio, because it's using the callsign that you have set into the station settings. What callsign is set in the UI-View station settings? What mode does the FTM-350 have to be in for UI-View to access the internal TNC? Is it running a KISS interface?

Here are two UI-View screenshots of two station list details, K6MAP-1 and K6MAP-3.
K6MAP-1 does not trigger the base APRS, K6MAP-3 works fine in all respects.

The screen shots show callsign W6MAF-1 and W6MAF-3.

 

[K4APR]

ALL of the APRS radios from Kenwood and Yaesu send APRS position reports as Mic-E encoded beacons and they can decode Mic-E beacons from other stations.

Right. I'm not buying that MIC-E fixed it. I think something else changed, such as the SSID.

 

[Jay911]

Your station W6MAF-3 is frequently sending packets that do not have a GPS fix. From aprs.fi's raw packet output:

2012-11-11 04:34:18 MST: W6MAF-3>GPSSU3,WIDE1,WIDE2-2,qAR,N6VIG:$GPRMC,113414,V,3422.1187,N,11724.5329,W,0.0000,0.0,111112,,E*68 [No GPS fix in GPRMC sentence]
2012-11-11 04:35:17 MST: W6MAF-3>GPSSU3,WIDE1,WIDE2-2,qAR,N6VIG:$GPRMC,113514,A,3422.1058,N,11724.4944,W,0.0000,312.8,111112,,E*75
2012-11-11 04:37:44 MST: W6MAF-3>GPSSU3,W6MAF-1*,KELLER*,KF6ILA-10*,WIDE2*,qAR,W6QAR-1:$GPRMC,113414,V,3422.1187,N,11724.5329,W,0.0000,0.0,111112,,E*68 [No GPS fix in GPRMC sentence]
2012-11-11 05:06:16 MST: W6MAF-3>GPSSU3,WIDE1,WIDE2-2,qAR,N6VIG:$GPRMC,120614,A,3422.6555,N,11724.2847,W,0.0000,256.2,111112,,E*76

 

[Jay911]

Your station W6MAF-3 is frequently sending packets that do not have a GPS fix.

And right now you're getting both "Delayed or out-of-order packet" meaning a packet was received later than it was supposed to, and "Location changes too fast >500 km/h" meaning the position sent is far enough away from your previous position that you would have to be traveling impossibly fast for it to be legitimate.

What is your hardware (what radio, TNC, and GPS)? It seems that either your GPS is sending invalid data to your radio, or your radio/TNC is sending invalid data to the APRS-IS.

 

[KB6PAI]

To Jay911:
I am KB6PAI-9 and everything is now working just fine.
W6MAF-1 was just another example of a station that did not trigger my FTM-350 station list.
With the Mic-E fix,
both stations and my handheld now show up on the base and UI-View to my satisfaction.
To Jason:
Thanks for correcting my typos.
Everything works off KB6PAI-9

 

[K4APR]

Glad you got it sorted out.