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Amateur Radio Data Transmissions - For discussion of all modes used to send data such as APRS and packet.

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Old 04-06-2018, 3:35 AM
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Default Binary to ascii converter back and forth, Windows software?

I tried Google, but came up emtpy-handed on this.

I was looking for methods to convert binary files (Such as images, sound-files, zip-files, etc. Files that can't be opened in a normal text-viewer to have its content copied into the RTTY transmit window) into some standard ascii type text that could be transmitted via RTTY (Or some other digital format, perhaps APRS, or even into CW), and then converted back to a binary file at the receiver's end.

I know images can be sent as SSTV, but I would like to find an option that can transmit an exact binary duplicate of any file via a digital radio mode such as RTTY, APRS, CW or other similar mode.

I just can't find any Windows software that seems able to convert back and forth between binary (Or perhaps RAW is a better description of it) and 'plain' text.

Alternative ideas are also welcome.
Thanks
jacob.
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Old 04-06-2018, 5:42 AM
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A byte of data is a byte of data, regardless of whether that data can be represented as human-readable text, which is really what ASCII is. You could open a zip file in Notepad++ and you'll see letters, numbers, and garbage characters. That's what you need to transmit.


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Old 04-06-2018, 7:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eorange View Post
A byte of data is a byte of data, regardless of whether that data can be represented as human-readable text, which is really what ASCII is. You could open a zip file in Notepad++ and you'll see letters, numbers, and garbage characters. That's what you need to transmit.
I wish it was that simple, but unfortunately it is not.
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Old 04-06-2018, 8:22 AM
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You'll never get data over RTTY. It's only 5 bits, and doesn't even support lower case text.

What you need is JNOS. It's an X25 networking suite using packet radio. Since it was developed for amateurs, it's known as AX25.

Its main function is acting as a Bulletin Board type program where you can read and send mail. But it also supports most other TCP/IP functions including file transfer protocol. So if you want to send any file, you can just FTP it between two stations running JNOS.

Here's a pretty good rundown of how to get going JNOS, Amateur Radio and mobile IP email/BBS

Here's the site of the maintainer. JNOS 2.0 WIN32 Native Windows

Last edited by jwt873; 04-06-2018 at 8:39 AM..
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Old 04-06-2018, 8:26 AM
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That was just to illustrate that all characters in a zip file, for example, are not human readable (ASCII). I wasn't implying that's all it takes.

Look for a Base64 encoder/decoder. You'd also need to use an error-correcting form of RTTY to have any hope of transmitting the data 100% successfully.
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Old 04-06-2018, 8:29 AM
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Originally Posted by JELAIR View Post
I tried Google, but came up emtpy-handed on this.
jacob.
Humm...you sure about that? LMGTFY
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Old 04-06-2018, 11:22 AM
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Jacob I suspect this is posted in the wrong forum - what kind of app are you using for this? An amateur radio data transfer, or what?

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Old 04-06-2018, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by jwt873 View Post
You'll never get data over RTTY. It's only 5 bits, and doesn't even support lower case text.
I figured if there perhaps was a program that could convert a file to HEX (A to F, 0 to 7), that that might work with RTTY, but I haven't found any software that can do that kind of conversion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwt873 View Post
What you need is JNOS. It's an X25 networking suite using packet radio. Since it was developed for amateurs, it's known as AX25.

Its main function is acting as a Bulletin Board type program where you can read and send mail. But it also supports most other TCP/IP functions including file transfer protocol. So if you want to send any file, you can just FTP it between two stations running JNOS.
Thank you.
I have had a look at it and found a 'simple' German terminal program, that should be able to work with the sound-card as a TNC capable of producing FSK sound (Which I believe is similar to RTTY, sound-wise)
I will look further into that as an alternative.




Quote:
Originally Posted by eorange View Post
That was just to illustrate that all characters in a zip file, for example, are not human readable (ASCII). I wasn't implying that's all it takes.

Look for a Base64 encoder/decoder. You'd also need to use an error-correcting form of RTTY to have any hope of transmitting the data 100% successfully.
Thank you very much.
I just made a quick simple test, and while I can't use Base64 with RTTY (Because it can't do 'garbage text' or lower-case letters), I CAN use it with BPSK31.
Very good





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Originally Posted by iMONITOR View Post
Humm...you sure about that? LMGTFY
Yes, I am, actually, but thanks for trying.
The links in your, slightly arrogant, google-search, are not useful for converting files such as images or audio, and that's what I am looking for.







Quote:
Originally Posted by ka3jjz View Post
Jacob I suspect this is posted in the wrong forum - what kind of app are you using for this? An amateur radio data transfer, or what?
I am planning to use either MultiPSK or FLdigi to create the RTTY sound (The digital mode typically found in the HF range)
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Old 04-06-2018, 3:05 PM
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You will likely die of old age before a file transfer completes. BPSK31 has a rate of 32 bits/second. A quick calc shows the data rate would be 0.000004 MB/minute.

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Old 04-06-2018, 8:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwt873 View Post
You'll never get data over RTTY. It's only 5 bits, and doesn't even support lower case text.

What you need is JNOS. It's an X25 networking suite using packet radio. Since it was developed for amateurs, it's known as AX25.

Its main function is acting as a Bulletin Board type program where you can read and send mail. But it also supports most other TCP/IP functions including file transfer protocol. So if you want to send any file, you can just FTP it between two stations running JNOS.

Here's a pretty good rundown of how to get going JNOS, Amateur Radio and mobile IP email/BBS

Here's the site of the maintainer. JNOS 2.0 WIN32 Native Windows
I have been running a JNOS system here in NYC since 1998. It started as a DOS window on a Windows 98 PC, but it now runs JNOS version 2 on a Linux box. It is set up to interface with all sorts of messaging systems like SMTP (email), AX25 packet, Winlink, SMS/text messaging, APRS, etc. Binary files can be attached and are sent in a Base64 format so that it can easily be carried by ASCII systems. This is the same compression scheme used by many other systems, even FLdigi on HF! My system is at 44.68.41.1 on port 2300 for telnet , AKA n2nov.ampr.org for those who are IP number challenged.
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Old 04-06-2018, 9:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JELAIR View Post
Yes, I am, actually, but thanks for trying.
The links in your, slightly arrogant, google-search, are not useful for converting files such as images or audio, and that's what I am looking for.
Please accept my apology. I was not thinking, I've been very ill, on medication and hardly any sleep for weeks. I just read the subject line, and not your actual post and was in a hurry when I attempted to help you. Thanks for not getting ticked off at me.
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Old 04-07-2018, 5:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eorange View Post
You will likely die of old age before a file transfer completes. BPSK31 has a rate of 32 bits/second. A quick calc shows the data rate would be 0.000004 MB/minute.
Haha, perhaps
Anyway, I will be trying some 'proof-of-concept' experiments and see how things play out. Hopefully I will learn more in the process, and who knows where that can take me





Quote:
Originally Posted by n2nov View Post
I have been running a JNOS system here in NYC since 1998. It started as a DOS window on a Windows 98 PC, but it now runs JNOS version 2 on a Linux box. It is set up to interface with all sorts of messaging systems like SMTP (email), AX25 packet, Winlink, SMS/text messaging, APRS, etc. Binary files can be attached and are sent in a Base64 format so that it can easily be carried by ASCII systems. This is the same compression scheme used by many other systems, even FLdigi on HF! My system is at 44.68.41.1 on port 2300 for telnet , AKA n2nov.ampr.org for those who are IP number challenged.
Just pinged it and got a reply





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Originally Posted by iMONITOR View Post
Please accept my apology. I was not thinking, I've been very ill, on medication and hardly any sleep for weeks. I just read the subject line, and not your actual post and was in a hurry when I attempted to help you. Thanks for not getting ticked off at me.
No worries Any help is welcome
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Old 04-07-2018, 9:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JELAIR View Post
I tried Google, but came up emtpy-handed on this.

I was looking for methods to convert binary files (Such as images, sound-files, zip-files, etc. Files that can't be opened in a normal text-viewer to have its content copied into the RTTY transmit window) into some standard ascii type text that could be transmitted via RTTY (Or some other digital format, perhaps APRS, or even into CW), and then converted back to a binary file at the receiver's end.

I know images can be sent as SSTV, but I would like to find an option that can transmit an exact binary duplicate of any file via a digital radio mode such as RTTY, APRS, CW or other similar mode.

I just can't find any Windows software that seems able to convert back and forth between binary (Or perhaps RAW is a better description of it) and 'plain' text.

Alternative ideas are also welcome.
Thanks
jacob.
Will mime do some of this for you?
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Old 04-07-2018, 10:46 AM
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Thumbs up Uuencoding

Quote:
Originally Posted by JELAIR View Post
I was looking for methods to convert binary files (Such as images, sound-files, zip-files, etc. Files that can't be opened in a normal text-viewer to have its content copied into the RTTY transmit window) into some standard ascii type text that could be transmitted via RTTY (Or some other digital format, perhaps APRS, or even into CW), and then converted back to a binary file at the receiver's end.
What you need is UUencoder software. Google that and you'll have your answer.
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Old 04-07-2018, 11:30 PM
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You could try one of more of the many software packages that support the Kermit Protocol (The Kermit Project - Columbia University: Secure Scriptable Telnet, FTP, SSH Terminal Emulation and File Transfer Clients) that is designed to send both text and binary files between various types of computers. The link can be set to use standard serial transmissions of either half or full duplex. Over radio half duplex is normally desired since only one side can transmit at a time. The software will translate between various computer character encoding schemes (such as ASCII on a PC and EBCDIC on the IBM mainframe) and will allow binary files to be sent over links that are shorter than the standard 8 bits in length.

Although the official Kermit project has shut down, the project has been taken over by others to keep updating and supporting it. The Kermit protocol is also supported by various communications software so you may find one that will directly support your OS of choice. The project team also has versions for various OS available for download. While they generally don't directly support links that run over radio, you can probably get it to work pretty easily by setting them to run over a half duplex link and configure the delay timings to handle the change between transmit and receive on each end of the link.
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Old 04-08-2018, 5:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlwtrunked View Post
mime


Quote:
Originally Posted by gmclam View Post
UUencoder


Quote:
Originally Posted by n5ims View Post
Kermit


Thank you for those 3 suggestions.
I will look into what they are and how they work.
Thank you.
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Old 04-08-2018, 3:54 PM
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Just a quick update;

Thanks to all the suggestions I got (And again; big thank you to all of you for taking time to give input ), and where they brought me (Various websites and new searches), I ended up finding out that FLdigi actually has an addon-module that does file-transfer

It's called FLamp and is one of several addon-modules provided by the FLdigi creators.

It's part of a system called Narrow Band Emergency Messaging Software (NBEMS).
For those who want to dive into this themselves, begin here: NBEMS

Again, thank you very much everybody, for helping me along and ending up finding this
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Old 04-08-2018, 5:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JELAIR View Post
I tried Google, but came up emtpy-handed on this.

I was looking for methods to convert binary files (Such as images, sound-files, zip-files, etc. Files that can't be opened in a normal text-viewer to have its content copied into the RTTY transmit window) into some standard ascii type text that could be transmitted via RTTY (Or some other digital format, perhaps APRS, or even into CW), and then converted back to a binary file at the receiver's end.

I know images can be sent as SSTV, but I would like to find an option that can transmit an exact binary duplicate of any file via a digital radio mode such as RTTY, APRS, CW or other similar mode.

I just can't find any Windows software that seems able to convert back and forth between binary (Or perhaps RAW is a better description of it) and 'plain' text.

Alternative ideas are also welcome.
Thanks
jacob.
Are you trying to send these files via HF radio? If so, some form of HF packet would do the job.

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Old 04-09-2018, 3:03 AM
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@krokus; Hi Krokus; I have settled on FLamp for now It integrates with FLdigi, so really any frequency can be used. It seems very flexible and easy to operate.

Youtube-tutorial on FLamp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMFx7h-hTt0
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