Ham antenna question

[darticus]

I'm working on getting my ham license. Money is tight, and I wondered if my Radio Shack Discone antenna that cost 74.00, that I use for my scanner, would work for ham? Would this be ok for a beginner? A good ham base suggestion might also be helpful or should it be handheld or mobile? Thanks for the help Ron

 

[pjtnascar]

Hey, I got the TYT-TH UVF-1. It's a handheld dual band radio. It does both 2 meters and 70 cm bands. It costs about $130.00 at Advanced and comes with a car charger and a cable and software for computer programming. I like it, and it seems to be well made. I have no trouble reaching the repeater over in Succasunna. The on-air reports have been good. I am also wondering about inexpensive antennas since I'm on a tight budget.

Those two bands seem to have the most activity on them. I think you'll be happy with that radio. The mobile radios I have seen are around $300 for a dual band, then you need a power supply to use it in the house, and an antenna for the car. I'm thinking about getting a mag mount antenna for the car that I could also use stuck on a cookie sheet in the yard just to extend coverage.

There are also a lot of cheap radios on Ebay, but they are directly from china, and that seems a little sketchy to me.

 

[darticus]

That does sound really great. I thought everyone gets a base to begin. I don't know enough about ham but I have a discone Radio Shack antenna on the roof that I use for my scanner that I think will work with ham and I have a Wilson 1000 MAG MOUNT on my SUV that says 10M and 11M for CB and amature radio 26 mhz to 30 mhz. Maybe this will also work for a radio like your portable ham. Do you know if these will work if I get my license as it would save me a little money if they would work. Ron

Hey, I got the TYT-TH UVF-1. It's a handheld dual band radio. It does both 2 meters and 70 cm bands. It costs about $130.00 at Advanced and comes with a car charger and a cable and software for computer programming. I like it, and it seems to be well made. I have no trouble reaching the repeater over in Succasunna. The on-air reports have been good. I am also wondering about inexpensive antennas since I'm on a tight budget.

Those two bands seem to have the most activity on them. I think you'll be happy with that radio. The mobile radios I have seen are around $300 for a dual band, then you need a power supply to use it in the house, and an antenna for the car. I'm thinking about getting a mag mount antenna for the car that I could also use stuck on a cookie sheet in the yard just to extend coverage.

There are also a lot of cheap radios on Ebay, but they are directly from china, and that seems a little sketchy to me.

 

[LtDoc]

A hand-held radio isn't a super good idea as a 'first' radio. They are always going to be limited by the 'rubber-duck' type antennas supplied with them, and also the batteries, need more than one of those things (or a charger that will also power the HT). While the small size is 'handy' it also makes things a bit more difficult to program into the radio. Hand-held radios are made for portability and convenience, not really aimed at performance.
I've heard about the 'TYT' HTs but never seen/used one. I do have one of the Wouxun HTs which I figure is probably the same basic radio in a different case. It's also about the same price range, with the same liabilities, mainly antenna (although it does work well considering it's size).
Antennas. For fixed use, an ordinary 2 meter/70 cm "base" antenna of some sort mounted as high as you can get it is a -very- good idea. Same applies to mobile use. I don't know about the 'TYT', but the Wouxun programmng software is almost a necessity! It makes it MUCH eaiser to set-up and change the radio's frequency use (get the programming cable too!).
And the 'used' market is a very nice source of 'cheaper' radios. There are some things that used to be considered an option that are now a necessity, such as the ability to produce 'PL' tones. There are many very capable used radios that don't have that 'PL' tone ability and they are almost useless today.
Oh well, lots of options, but they all require some knowledge to know what's going to be useful.
What would I recommend for a 'first' radio? One that isn't built into a match-box (not miniaturized), one that's -simple- to operate, and one that doesn't require a trip to see your banker for a loan. Most radios are powered by 12 vdc now so a power supply is nice too. Take a look at some of the mobile radios, they come close to having all of those characteristics. There's no single 'best answer'.
Good luck and have fun!
- 'Doc

And naturally...
"If you ain't got Kenwood, you got squat!"
ICOM stands for "I can only monitor."
And who want's anything with "AES" in the middle of it?"

 

[jhooten]

To get back to your original question, the rat shack discone is rated for transmit on the 2m and 70cm bands. It will work just not as well as a vertical antenna.

 

[N8IAA]

To get back to your original question, the rat shack discone is rated for transmit on the 2m and 70cm bands. It will work just not as well as a vertical antenna.

Jerry, not to pick nits, but the discone is a 1/4 ~ vertical antenna, that usually works better than a 5/8th ~ antenna. I had one in an attic and used it when storms were around and didn't want to use my outside antennas.
Larry

 

[N8IAA]

I'm working on getting my ham license. Money is tight, and I wondered if my Radio Shack Discone antenna that cost 74.00, that I use for my scanner, would work for ham? Would this be ok for a beginner? A good ham base suggestion might also be helpful or should it be handheld or mobile? Thanks for the help Ron

Depending on your area, what is used the most? 2m, 73cm? Have you put any of the repeater freqs into your scanner to see what is active and what isn't? I have no problem suggesting a dual band handheld for a first radio, as long as you are not dependent on the rubber duck that came with it. Using your discone will enhance the performance of the radio. Just rember, the discone will not handle over 25 watts efficiently. If you pick a mobile unit, or a handheld, you will need to power it from a power supply. For the mobile, you need to get a power supply that generates more amps than the radio pulls on high power. This saves the radio and the power supply.
HTH,
Larry

 

[IowaGuy1603]

That does sound really great. I thought everyone gets a base to begin. I don't know enough about ham but I have a discone Radio Shack antenna on the roof that I use for my scanner that I think will work with ham and I have a Wilson 1000 MAG MOUNT on my SUV that says 10M and 11M for CB and amature radio 26 mhz to 30 mhz. Maybe this will also work for a radio like your portable ham. Do you know if these will work if I get my license as it would save me a little money if they would work. Ron

I have been a ham for 10 yrs and still use a "mobile" radio as a base. It works fine and is really limited only by the antenna that is hooked to it.
I can if I wish use it both as a base or a mobile...............but I have enough radios that I don't have to change them out.

I have even hooked my HT up to my good antenna on the tower..............and it works well in a pinch (power disruption and don't break out the batteries for the base)

'As stated before that RS discone is rated for UHF/VHF use for 2 meters/70 Centimeters out of the box AND can be used for 6 meters if tuned.

Your Wilson mag mount won't work for pretty much anything but 10 meters in the ham band. If you want to go mobile on UHF/VHF you will need to get another mobile antenna

 

[jhooten]

Jerry, not to pick nits, but the discone is a 1/4 ~ vertical antenna, that usually works better than a 5/8th ~ antenna. I had one in an attic and used it when storms were around and didn't want to use my outside antennas.
Larry

I have an FT8900 in the car and the radio room. Beldon 9913 runs to the discone. I can hit repeaters from the car in the driveway that I cannot hit with the discone at 30 feet.

If we are talking about this one:
RadioShack® Outdoor Scanner/Ham Discone Antenna - RadioShack.com
The whip is only used on the 50 MHz band not on 2m or 70cm (or any of the other covered bands). See the manual here:
http://www.radioshack.com/graphics/uc/rsk/Support/ProductManuals/2000043_PM_EN.pdf

 

[N8IAA]

That's the one, Jerry. But, I never used it for my main antenna. The repeaters for skywarn were within 5 miles of my QTH. I had a Diamond dual band base antenna I used for normal ops and simplex. Four element beam also. Just was letting him know that for now, he could use his discone.
Larry

 

[pjtnascar]

Ron, there is no easy answer for you, but I believe the best way to get on the air for a low initial investment, and without much trouble is to pick up the inexpensive walkie talkie. I agree that you should definitely program the local repeater freqs into a scanner and listen to the action on your local area. The SARA repeater here seems to be dead most of the time, except during rush hours and nights/weekends. If you are looking to talk distance or simplex comms, then an HT isn't for you. It seems though that you want to have bull sessions with local guys (hence your interest in CB) and the repeater is great for that. Splitrock hosts a Sunday night "tech net" that covers all kinds of tech based topics, and the members thus far have been kind and welcoming to a newbie who is constantly biting his toungue to not say 10-4!

As for programming the radio, if you want to plug in freqs without the computer it is possible, but there are almost 200 memory channels in the radio, so I just programmed most of the repeaters in northern NJ and I scan them until I hear some activity. I don't have 300 bucks just to get started with a base station, nor do I feel like messing with antennas and all the grounding needed to set up a ham station right now. The HT does exactly what I want it to do. I am not tied down in the house to a base station, I don't have to buy one antenna for the car and one for the house, and 130 bucks is a lot easier to sell to the wife then a 300+ dollar investment in "another one of those radios."

The only drawback to the TYT's programming is that you must set the repeater offset yourself. This is not difficult, as the repeater listings will list the offset.

As for the 10 meter band: The phone privileges for Technician class is very small, and so far I have heard nothing on those freqs. I already a 10meter rig that someone gave me, so it didn't cost anything to set up. Having heard this, I wouldn't invest in the 10 meter stuff yet.

BTW There is a hamfest at the Sussex Fairgrounds on July 10th. Maybe you should check it out. I f I can, I am going to go, but I think I have a family function to attend.

 

[darticus]

I hope we can clear this up as I'm confused. The Radio Shack Discone sold for 74.99 when I got it 4 month ago but can't find the directions now. I think their the same direction and the same antenna as the one that now says 69 dollars and the directions in the link above is the same. It does say amature radio. It sounds like I can't use the RS discone or my Wilson 1000 for the ham stuff. The Wilson 1000 says 10M and 11M covering 26MHZ TO 30 MHZ. Anyone able so shed some light on this? Ron

 

[darticus]

What does 10 meters mean in ham talk? What about 11m it says? Thanks Ron

I have been a ham for 10 yrs and still use a "mobile" radio as a base. It works fine and is really limited only by the antenna that is hooked to it.
I can if I wish use it both as a base or a mobile...............but I have enough radios that I don't have to change them out.

I have even hooked my HT up to my good antenna on the tower..............and it works well in a pinch (power disruption and don't break out the batteries for the base)

'As stated before that RS discone is rated for UHF/VHF use for 2 meters/70 Centimeters out of the box AND can be used for 6 meters if tuned.

Your Wilson mag mount won't work for pretty much anything but 10 meters in the ham band. If you want to go mobile on UHF/VHF you will need to get another mobile antenna

 

[N8IAA]

I hope we can clear this up as I'm confused. The Radio Shack Discone sold for 74.99 when I got it 4 month ago but can't find the directions now. I think their the same direction and the same antenna as the one that now says 69 dollars and the directions in the link above is the same. It does say amature radio. It sounds like I can't use the RS discone or my Wilson 1000 for the ham stuff. The Wilson 1000 says 10M and 11M covering 26MHZ TO 30 MHZ. Anyone able so shed some light on this? Ron

Darticus,if you have read my posts, you would see that the discone is fine for using on 2m (144-148MHz) and 73cm (444-448MHz). If you happen to get a tri-band radio that does 6m (50MHz) and you have the long vertical whip on top of the antenna, you can do all three bands from your ht. The Wilson 1000 is a good CB (26MHz) antenna, as well as, a 10m (28MHz) ham antenna. When I stopped using CB, I used the Wilson 1k for 10m work. It has now become a base/mobile scanner antenna through some changes. I took out the whip that originally came with the antenna and incorporated the whip from a defunct RS multiband magmount. As a basic Tech license holder, you are limited to a small portion of the 10m phone band. It is 28.200MHz to 28.400MHz.
So, after reading all this, it is OK to use the discone until you put up a better base antenna for ham.
HTH,
Larry

 

[darticus]

Sorry for not reading it better but everything with ham is getting a little overwhelming but its cool! Thanks Ron

Darticus,if you have read my posts, you would see that the discone is fine for using on 2m (144-148MHz) and 73cm (444-448MHz). If you happen to get a tri-band radio that does 6m (50MHz) and you have the long vertical whip on top of the antenna, you can do all three bands from your ht. The Wilson 1000 is a good CB (26MHz) antenna, as well as, a 10m (28MHz) ham antenna. When I stopped using CB, I used the Wilson 1k for 10m work. It has now become a base/mobile scanner antenna through some changes. I took out the whip that originally came with the antenna and incorporated the whip from a defunct RS multiband magmount. As a basic Tech license holder, you are limited to a small portion of the 10m phone band. It is 28.200MHz to 28.400MHz.
So, after reading all this, it is OK to use the discone until you put up a better base antenna for ham.
HTH,
Larry

 

[pjtnascar]

Sorry to confuse you Ron. I forget how confusing this stuff was before I studied for my ham ticket only a few weeks ago. I did have the advantage of being heavily involved in CB for a long time, so I knew some of that stuff already. As you start using this stuff, it makes more sense.

When people talk about frequencies in terms of meters, they are referring to the approx. length of one radio wave length in the given frequency. To make it easy, one wave length of a CB frequency radio wave is about 11 meters long. One radio wave on 2 meters is about 2 meters long, and so on. As the frequency increases, the wave length gets shorter.
What does this have to do with anything? In order to get a good SWR match, the antenna should be a full wave length, 1/2 wave length, 5/8 wave length, or quarter wavelength, ideally. Antennas are designed to either be physically this measurement, or balanced to this measurement using a coil or some type of matching system. I believe the Wilson uses a coil and the magnet in the base of the antenna to "trick" the tranceiver into seeing the proper wavelength. That is why shortening and lengthening your whip affected the SWR.

So the radio shack antenna you are looking to use is sized properly to operate on the 2m and 73 cm bands, or it has the properties to allow it to be used for that purpose.

The wilson has the capability to operate within both bands, but the whip length will be different for the two bands. (remember "tuning" the antenna for your cb?) Youwouldn't be able to switch bands without tuning the antenna, by either changing the whip or using an antenna tuner. But I really wouldn't bother with 10meters, since we barely have any voice privileges on there as technician class hams.

BTW- That wavelength info is a ham test question.

If you're interested, here is a helpful link that illustrates the wavelength thing.
The Ultimate Guide to 11 Meter CB Antennas

 

[darticus]

Thanks that does help. Ron

Sorry to confuse you Ron. I forget how confusing this stuff was before I studied for my ham ticket only a few weeks ago. I did have the advantage of being heavily involved in CB for a long time, so I knew some of that stuff already. As you start using this stuff, it makes more sense.

When people talk about frequencies in terms of meters, they are referring to the approx. length of one radio wave length in the given frequency. To make it easy, one wave length of a CB frequency radio wave is about 11 meters long. One radio wave on 2 meters is about 2 meters long, and so on. As the frequency increases, the wave length gets shorter.
What does this have to do with anything? In order to get a good SWR match, the antenna should be a full wave length, 1/2 wave length, 5/8 wave length, or quarter wavelength, ideally. Antennas are designed to either be physically this measurement, or balanced to this measurement using a coil or some type of matching system. I believe the Wilson uses a coil and the magnet in the base of the antenna to "trick" the tranceiver into seeing the proper wavelength. That is why shortening and lengthening your whip affected the SWR.

So the radio shack antenna you are looking to use is sized properly to operate on the 2m and 73 cm bands, or it has the properties to allow it to be used for that purpose.

The wilson has the capability to operate within both bands, but the whip length will be different for the two bands. (remember "tuning" the antenna for your cb?) Youwouldn't be able to switch bands without tuning the antenna, by either changing the whip or using an antenna tuner. But I really wouldn't bother with 10meters, since we barely have any voice privileges on there as technician class hams.

BTW- That wavelength info is a ham test question.

If you're interested, here is a helpful link that illustrates the wavelength thing.
The Ultimate Guide to 11 Meter CB Antennas

 

[k8krh]

RADIOS...Money is tight...go look at qth.com lot of 2 mtr radios for sale , antenna wise...for 2 meters I know little about your discone, but look up tape measure 2 mtr antenna, believe some chap sells them on qrz or qth.com. Also look on r and l electronics they have some used radios under YAESU for under $100, and sometimes hamstation has 2 mtr fm radios, anyhow suggestions...
Now the first step..take/pass the exam first and get your ticket...

DOCTOR/795

 

[Token]

As a basic Tech license holder, you are limited to a small portion of the 10m phone band. It is 28.200MHz to 28.400MHz.
HTH,
Larry

Errr, Techs have voice on 28.300 to 28.500, not 28.200 to 28.400, and CW/RTTY/Data 28.000 to 28.300. Actually, you could say CW/RTTY/Data 28.000 to 28.500 as CW is authorized all the way across the Novice/Tech allocation.

T!

 

[pjtnascar]

RADIOS...Money is tight...go look at qth.com lot of 2 mtr radios for sale , antenna wise...for 2 meters I know little about your discone, but look up tape measure 2 mtr antenna, believe some chap sells them on qrz or qth.com. Also look on r and l electronics they have some used radios under YAESU for under $100, and sometimes hamstation has 2 mtr fm radios, anyhow suggestions...
Now the first step..take/pass the exam first and get your ticket...

DOCTOR/795

Good spots for used gear, Doc.