Question regarding MARS/CAP mod...

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Brasso

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I just passed my Tech and so I'm hunting for a HT. I think I'm pretty set on a Yaesu VX-6R.

I was considering whether it might be worth it to have the MARS/CAP mod done so that in an *cough* emergency I can communicate on GMRS which I also have a license for. However, I don't know if this mod will affect it's sensitivity/selectivity on it's normal ham frequencies.

Any thoughts?
 

krokus

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Keep in mind that the specs of the radio are for the ham bands. When you go outside those bands, there is no promise of sensitivity or transmit power.

That said, the performance should be comparable to the ham bands.

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robertmac

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But it is illegal to transmit out of band with an amateur radio. This has been discussed numerous times on various threads. And that should have been discussed in the amateur radio courses.
 

MTS2000des

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yep, ham gear is not legal for transmitting anywhere but the ham bands. no way around it.

and those so-called "MARS/CAP" mods, well, at least for CAP, very few if any modern commercially available ham transceivers are actually certified for CAP use:

https://comm.capnhq.gov/equipment/equipment.cfm

So it is what it is: making a ham radio transmit capable on services it is not certified for.
 

toastycookies

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I just passed my Tech and so I'm hunting for a HT. I think I'm pretty set on a Yaesu VX-6R.

I was considering whether it might be worth it to have the MARS/CAP mod done so that in an *cough* emergency I can communicate on GMRS which I also have a license for. However, I don't know if this mod will affect it's sensitivity/selectivity on it's normal ham frequencies.

Any thoughts?


I thought you said you were a cop?
 

MTS2000des

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I thought you said you were a cop?

Yep, he claims to be:

So here's the deal. I know nothing about Ham radio. I've been doing a little reading about the Tech license but that's about it. I'm a police officer also. Our local departments, state-county-city, all use different frequencies to talk on and we can't hear each other. So I was thinking about getting a scanner. But then I thought, why not get a radio instead. I was looking at the Yaesu radio's and they can scan, although not transmit, in the police bands (700-999mhz). If I got a Tech license, I could use the radio to scan while I'm patrolling and in my off time I could talk on the lower bands.
 

Brasso

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I see.

So why do so many retailers offer it? Seems that would be illegal.

Remind me not to ask any more questions.
 
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N4KVE

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I see.

So why do so many retailers offer it? Seems that would be illegal.

Remind me not to ask any more questions.
Because years ago, the mars/cap mod allowed the radios to rx/tx out of band. Back then, ham radios would only rx in the ham band. So if you wanted to listen to public safety, you had to do the mod. Nowadays, the radios seem to rx everything, so the mod only allows to tx out of band. But people just seem to want their radios to be able to tx everywhere the radios rx. Like "why does a dog lick his groin area"? Because he can.
 

rapidcharger

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I see.

So why do so many retailers offer it? Seems that would be illegal.

Remind me not to ask any more questions.

So many?
I only know of two doing it and that's gigaparts and theantennafarm. What other retailers are offering it?

It's not illegal to do the mod, it's just illegal to use it and of course the folks that are doing it aren't going to be the ones who end up in hot water if they're caught. It's going to be the operator who gets in hot water.

As for why they do it? They do it for the almighty dollar. They make money off of people who want to use their ham radios out of band for services such as "*cough cough*" GMRS.
It's the same reason that companies like Baofeng get bogus part 90 grants and sell their radios as part 90 certified. It's also the same reason companies like Uniden package a FRS radio as having 50 miles range. Heck, it's the same reason P25 digital trunking systems exist in towns where they have a grand total of 5 officers and fire fighters on duty at any given time

On the subject of asking questions, why would we remind you not to ask questions? We live for this sort of question! :D It never gets old.
 

Token

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I see.

So why do so many retailers offer it? Seems that would be illegal.

Remind me not to ask any more questions.

To answer your original question, no, it will not hurt performance in the ham bands.

This is a hot button topic with some people, as you can see, and it can really get some skivvies in wad. There are a LOT of threads on it on the forums here. I personally don’t understand the anger factor with some on this. See for example this thread here http://forums.radioreference.com/am...ut-band-transmit-illegal-stupid-question.html

By the way, using a modified ham radio on a GMRS frequency would not be a violation of a Part 97 (ham) regulation, but rather a Part 95 (GMRS) violation. Well, I guess if you used your ham callsign that might make it a Part 97 violation.

Why should vendors offering equipment that can be modified be illegal? Do I need more regulation to cover things already covered quite adequately? Part 95 clearly says I cannot use non-certified equipment on those frequencies, and most ham gear is not Part 95 certified. On the other hand, there is nothing to stop the use of a Part 90 or 95 device in ham service.

Ham operators are in one of the few services that allow the operator to maintain his/her gear. That means, I can legally fix/modify/build from scratch my own gear. It is up to ME, not the maker of my gear, for ME to know I am in compliance, even when I use a purchased, manufactured, radio. And that is part of why hams are tested for their license, and don’t just get to pay their fee and get a license. As a licensed ham a person is expected to know, among other things, his band limits.

It has only been since the advent of microprocessor controlled radios that this has become an issue. Prior to that ALL ham radios could potentially transmit outside the ham bands, and it was ALWAYS up to the ham to make sure he did not do so.

But even away from that aspect, do we really want to push the cost of ham gear up higher? Not all countries / regions have the same frequency allocations for ham bands, and so radios are often built with multiple bandplan capabilities from the get go. These bandplan options can often be accessed by the same technique that allows the “MARS/CAP” mod. To make unmodifiable country specific versions would push up cost. Not all countries have limitations on using ham gear outside the ham bands. To make a radio that will not sell well in such areas is a poor business model.

In the end it is up to the user to be in compliance. My car is capable of exceeding the maximum posted speed limit in my state, should it be illegal for such a car to be sold? Since the states can't seem to agree on a max speed limit, would there need to be state specific models, and when you cross state lines would the car have to adopt that states standards? I don’t think so, I think it is up to me to use the capability when and where it is appropriate…and to not use it when it is not.

T!
 
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MTS2000des

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97.101 pretty much sums it up:

§97.101 General standards.

(a) In all respects not specifically covered by FCC Rules each amateur station must be operated in accordance with good engineering and good amateur practice.

§97.103 Station licensee responsibilities.

(a) The station licensee is responsible for the proper operation of the station in accordance with the FCC Rules. When the control operator is a different amateur operator than the station licensee, both persons are equally responsible for proper operation of the station.

In other words, as a licensee, you can use whatever equipment you wish, but at the end of the day, YOU are responsible for the proper operation of the equipment.

This is why we can build our own gear, modify it to our heart's content, and experiment. It does not give a carte blanche excuse to pirate outside of the amateur spectrum on which we are authorized through our license privileges to operate.
 

Brasso

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I get it. The history. The reputation. It's something to be proud of and you don't want people mucking it up. I understand and I agree. And technically, yes, it's illegal. Although there's something just "not right" about not being able to use a radio your licensed for to transmit on a frequency your licensed for because the antennae disconnects, but mounting it on your car at 50 watts is OK.

However,

I, Ren Hoek, solemnly swear to never transmit out of band, henceforth, and forever more, etc., fine print, legal disclaimer, and so forth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0fBNIyltew

Thank you,
 
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