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  #381 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2015, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by edmscan View Post
Just a smile .. and a wink.

Only one problem, you cannot prevent stupid.

Or fix it.. Duct tape muffles the sound, and eventually the 2x4 stops it from moving.


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  #382 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2015, 11:45 AM
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C'mon guys. You know better.
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  #383 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2015, 11:47 AM
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Well, it's one thing to use a ham radio to call for the police in case of emergency, & another thing to use a ham radio on a GMRS repeater with the owner's blessings. While both are illegal, one will quickly stir up a bee's nest, & the other will go unnoticed.
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  #384 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2015, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by W9BU View Post
C'mon guys. You know better.

If I keeps one Wacker from doing it... Meh, 2hours is actually longer than I figured it would last


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  #385 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2015, 12:12 PM
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I don't disagree about the potential value of the flowchart, but rules is rules. Fix two particular words and it'd be OK.
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  #386 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2015, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by W9BU View Post
I don't disagree about the potential value of the flowchart, but rules is rules. Fix two particular words and it'd be OK.

Like I said, I was surprised it lasted as long as it did!


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  #387 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2015, 1:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rapidcharger View Post
Still haven't received a response to my letters to the FCC. Yes, letters, plural. At the beginning of them month I sent the letter again asking for a response since two months had passed without hearing back. If I don't hear back by the 3 month mark, I will contact them again.

In a similar thread long ago on this forum we were discussing the legalities of programming a transmitter for frequencies you are not licensed for. We were not discussing actual transmission, but simply programming the transmit frequencies in. Before anyone jumps to a quick conclusion that is not as clear cut as some might think.

That caused me to write several letters and a couple of emails, I never heard back form any of them.

The letters and emails I sent all said about the same thing:

"Sir or Madam,

This letter contains questions with regard to enforcement and regulation, however I do not have a specific persons to address. It is my hope that this is routed to the correct person or persons, and my questions can be answered.

Like many I understand that one of the corner stones of the amateur radio service (CFR 47 Part 97) is the ability to provide emergency communications and to assist in communications needs during local emergencies and emergency drills. This tasking sometimes includes the potential for assisting in cross service communications or communications coordination.

With these goals in mind many amateur service operators have the capability to monitor public service frequencies and other frequencies outside the amateur radio service. Sometimes the potential ability to transmit on these other frequencies is also present, such as when reutilizing former Part 90 equipment on the amateur bands and as monitoring equipment. This potential transmit capability can, at times, lead to questions of legality.

I believe it is well understood in the amateur community that radio transmission by anyone on a frequency for which they are not authorized is the last resort and should only be utilized when no other option is present to protect life. In today’s environment of ready communications to the masses in the form of cell phones and wireless devices the probability of the need to transmit on other than authorized frequencies is smaller than ever. But the possibility is there, however small, and many amateurs do have the technical capability.

Within the amateur community CFR Title 47 Part 90.427(b) is sometimes quoted as making it a violation to program Part 90 Public Service frequencies into amateur hardware, even if only intended for future emergency use. The simple act of programming the transmit capability is quoted as the violation, with no actual transmission necessary. As an amateur service operator I believe I should know what I can and cannot do, I have an obligation to operate within the regulations, and so I have a couple of questions about this issue.

1. Specifically, does 90.427(b) make it a violation for an amateur service operator to program Part 90 transmit frequencies into his equipment preparatory to potential emergency communications support? This seems quite possibly to be the case, based on a layman’s reading of the text in this section.

2. Since 90.427(b) itself does not contain wording specific to Part 90 frequencies, but says “no person shall program into a transmitter frequencies for which the licensee using the transmitter is not authorized", how does this affect the amateur operator programming frequencies into a transmitter that are not Part 90 specific but are still outside the users authorized frequency set, such as Part 95 frequencies or even Part 97 frequencies for which the user does not hold the proper class license?

Again, I am asking about pre-programming the transmit frequencies in preparation of support, I am not asking about actually transmitting on other than authorized frequencies.

Your assistance in clarifying these questions would be greatly appreciated. As I stated before I believe it is the obligation of every service licensee to operate within the regulatory boundaries set, however, with the many different regulations that might apply some guidance might help.

Very respectfully,

XXXXXXXXXX"

I never got an answer to any of these emails or letters.

T!
  #388 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2015, 1:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Token View Post
In a similar thread long ago on this forum we were discussing the legalities of programming a transmitter for frequencies you are not licensed for. We were not discussing actual transmission, but simply programming the transmit frequencies in. Before anyone jumps to a quick conclusion that is not as clear cut as some might think.

That caused me to write several letters and a couple of emails, I never heard back form any of them.
Okay. I understand now. That's good to know and those were good questions by the way.

One possible difference between you and I, is I'm not gonna go away until I get an answer.

Being an extraordinarily annoying pest is one of the few things I'm really, really good at.
  #389 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2015, 10:01 PM
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Modified flow chart for anyone who is thinking about modifying their ham gear.


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  #390 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2015, 12:40 AM
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Even better.
  #391 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2015, 4:57 AM
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That chart is so riddled with flaws, it really is hilarious.

Some examples:

Just because the local ham repeaters aren't down doesn't mean you can get an answer from someone in a position to help.

If your radio doesn't cover HF, you can't make calls there. Not all ham radios cover HF.

By the time you try every ham band and every repeater, the issue is moot. The guy will likely be dead and you won't need to call anyone for help. While I guess that solves the issue, it's not exactly a desirable outcome.

Baofeng radios are banned outright. Yea - real technical. "I'm sorry I can't help you, but I only have a Baofeng and I might get in trouble." Looks like a Baofeng hater wrote that chart.

The implication is that only emergency services can call for help. But, if emergency services are there, there is no need to summon them, is there?

Simply looking at the first and last blocks say what the author intended: Is there a life-or-death situation in the chart ALL leads to the solution of letting them die if you can't get a reply in the ham bands. But, this was mentioned earlier in this thread that some people believe they should die rather than risk a possible rules violation. Get your priorities in order, people: LIFE is more important than Laws - ALWAYS.

In the end, the chart really says that radios are never needed in any situation. REALLY?

Like I said, hilarious, but total bull.

Last edited by Voyager; 08-26-2015 at 5:03 AM..
  #392 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2015, 8:56 AM
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No, it's saying that having anything other than Part 97 frequencies in your radio is unnecessary, since there are plenty of options in just the ham bands. And just because you can't get a live person to respond to your call on the repeater doesn't mean the repeater is useless unless it doesn't have an autopatch.
  #393 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2015, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
That chart is so riddled with flaws, it really is hilarious.
How so? Modifying your hamcraptastic radio 'just in case' is no excuse for not being prepared.

Going in to the wilderness? Take a Sat phone. Many places rent them. Buy a Spot beacon, or some other EPiRB.

I went on holidays this summer, and knowing a large part of my drive had ZERO cell service I brought both my ham transceiver AND my Spot beacon. Again, being prepared by having the right tools for the job.

Modifying the Ham radio is not being prepared. It's looking to play hero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Some examples:

Just because the local ham repeaters aren't down doesn't mean you can get an answer from someone in a position to help.
Again be prepared with the right tools for the job. A modified ham radio is not being prepared.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
If your radio doesn't cover HF, you can't make calls there. Not all ham radios cover HF.
Nope, but again, a modded radio programmed for LMR frequencies is not the solution.

I have been faced with needing help, in a place with out cell service... Finding someone with the right radio DID get help(in BC, had Police/Fire/EMS on scene in less than 15minutes by using having a trucker with a LMR radio on LAD 1.) did not need a modified radio to talk to the police.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
By the time you try every ham band and every repeater, the issue is moot. The guy will likely be dead and you won't need to call anyone for help. While I guess that solves the issue, it's not exactly a desirable outcome.
By by jumping straight to the police frequencies and not trying every ham repeater, you have not eliminated all other methods available to you...

Your argument is invalid.

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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Baofeng radios are banned outright. Yea - real technical. "I'm sorry I can't help you, but I only have a Baofeng and I might get in trouble." Looks like a Baofeng hater wrote that chart.
Hahahaha, they are crap. Although I own one, I don't use it any more because it is so poorly performing.

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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
The implication is that only emergency services can call for help. But, if emergency services are there, there is no need to summon them, is there?
It called being prepared. There is ALWAYS other options, if one wants to actually be prepared. Modifying your radio is not being properly prepared.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Simply looking at the first and last blocks say what the author intended: Is there a life-or-death situation in the chart ALL leads to the solution of letting them die if you can't get a reply in the ham bands. But, this was mentioned earlier in this thread that some people believe they should die rather than risk a possible rules violation. Get your priorities in order, people: LIFE is more important than Laws - ALWAYS.

In the end, the chart really says that radios are never needed in any situation. REALLY?

Like I said, hilarious, but total bull.

Uh no, being prepared is what it is saying. I carry my Spot and when I need 2way comms where my cell does not work I have my sat phone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8OHU View Post
No, it's saying that having anything other than Part 97 frequencies in your radio is unnecessary, since there are plenty of options in just the ham bands. And just because you can't get a live person to respond to your call on the repeater doesn't mean the repeater is useless unless it doesn't have an autopatch.

It's called being prepared! A modified ham radio is a copout to actually being prepared.



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  #394 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2015, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by kayn1n32008 View Post

It's called being prepared! A modified ham radio is a copout to actually being prepared.

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Yes, I fully agree with being prepared; that's why I almost always have HF capabilities with me when I go somewhere for a few days, and why one of my next radio purchases will be another FT-857D.
  #395 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2015, 12:33 PM
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Ok this question was ask at the FCC booth at Dayton Ham Fest.
Can A ham us Public Service Frequencies in an Emergengy.
As stated by the FCC Official. You as a ham are allowed to use any ham frequency in you class or not but only ham frequencies not public service frequncies. He also stated you do they complain you will be fined.
The ham that was talking to the FCC Official was WA4YGM.
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  #396 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2015, 12:53 PM
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Always an interesting topic, lots of opinions. I have yet to read just how someone would identify when transmitting on a part 90 frequency, would you identify using your FCC assigned amateur call or would you make up another identifier?
  #397 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2015, 2:05 PM
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This thread is an endless loop.
  #398 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2015, 4:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayn1n32008 View Post
How so? Modifying your hamcraptastic radio 'just in case' is no excuse for not being prepared.

Going in to the wilderness? Take a Sat phone. Many places rent them. Buy a Spot beacon, or some other EPiRB.
Rent one everywhere you go in case you run across a once-in-a-lifetime event (maybe a few times in a lifetime)? That's not being prepared - that's being paranoid.

And nobody said anything about modifying radios. I notice that nearly every reply of yours makes comment about modified radios. Why are you so quick to assume that a modified radio is involved?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayn1n32008 View Post

by using having a trucker with a LMR radio on LAD 1.) did not need a modified radio to talk to the police.
Interesting. I didn't know truckers had LMR radios to talk to Public Safety.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayn1n32008 View Post
By by jumping straight to the police frequencies and not trying every ham repeater, you have not eliminated all other methods available to you...

Your argument is invalid.
No, YOURS is. Nobody said anything about "jumping straight to the police frequencies". You're really in the assuming mood today, aren't you?

Your argument is the one that is invalid. Of course you try all other means first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayn1n32008 View Post
Hahahaha, they are crap. Although I own one, I don't use it any more because it is so poorly performing.
That explains your bias. When you come into a discussion with hate for a manufacturer, and use that hate in an irrelevant argument, you look like a fool. Baofeng has zero to do with this issue specifically. You want to rag on them, start an "I hate Baofeng" thread. I don't have one, but know many people who do who love them. But again, no specific manufacturer has any exclusivity to this issue. A Motorola can be similarly programmed and used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayn1n32008 View Post

It called being prepared. There is ALWAYS other options, if one wants to actually be prepared. Modifying your radio is not being properly prepared.
No. Sometimes there are no viable options. That's called life. It is impossible to prepare for every eventuality ahead of time. That's why they are called "emergencies".

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayn1n32008 View Post
Uh no, being prepared is what it is saying. I carry my Spot and when I need 2way comms where my cell does not work I have my sat phone.
Are you a parrot? All you keep saying is "be prepared" and "don't modify a radio"

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayn1n32008 View Post
It's called being prepared! A modified ham radio is a copout to actually being prepared.
Yep. SQWAKKKK! Always carry every radio type and band in case you need it. For that matter, always carry a trauma kit, and scene lighting, and rescue rope, and a PFD, and bunker gear, and jaws of life, and guns in case of attack, and don't forget the RPG for arial assaults. And don't forget the shelter. Always be prepared! SQWAAAK!


Even she isn't fully prepared for every possibility. Do you really want to carry this anywhere you go?

Last edited by Voyager; 08-26-2015 at 4:27 PM..
  #399 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2015, 4:40 PM
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I remember seeing this gal on TV. She will not go anywhere, even the local 7-11 for a Coke w/o her "bug out bag" in case the sky falls while she's there. Is this the next step? LOL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y33kB-gdrCU
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  #400 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2015, 4:44 PM
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I think we're done.

Rapidcharger, if you ever hear from the FCC, let me know. I'll re-open the thread so we can have another debate.
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