What to do when HF bands are noisey?

[AC2OY]

Very new to HF and my rig as well. Tonight everything was very loud lots of background noise. I tried pre amp attenuators and basically hitting every button to the left of the large VFO knob with my head buried in the owner's manual. I tuned a few people in but they were in a deep rag he's or a net so I just kept moving. Sadly to say I gave up and figured the noise wouldn't quit so I did. Does this happen during warm,humid,summer nights or was this a rare occurrence?

 

[zz0468]

Without knowing what rig you have, we have no way of knowing what tools your radio might have to deal with noise.

That said, HF is and can be very noisy. Your options are:

Research and select a lower noise antenna.

Invest in active noise canceling equipment.

Loop antennas

DSP noise reduction

Get a receiver with an effective noise blanker

All of the above.

Its worth the effort!

 

[N0IU]

Does this happen during warm,humid,summer nights or was this a rare occurrence?

Very typical! There has been severe WX throughout the US and this can have a tremendous detrimental effect on the HF bands, especially the lower in frequency you go. 20-10 meters isn't effected nearly as bad as 40 on down.

 

[w4hln]

You guys have a lot of T storm activity nearby right now...anything within a few hundred miles can ruin 40-80 and 160 meters...should clear up in a day or so...Gets nice during the winter!

Whats your HF antenna's Michael?

Ernie / W4HLN

 

[k9rzz]

What KIND of noise? Static crashes from lightning? Not much you can do, turn on your VHF rig.

Power line noise because it's raining? Call the power company.

General background noise because of the auroral conditions we've had the past few days? Complain to Mother Nature. :^)

 

[N8IAA]

Very new to HF and my rig as well. Tonight everything was very loud lots of background noise. I tried pre amp attenuators and basically hitting every button to the left of the large VFO knob with my head buried in the owner's manual. I tuned a few people in but they were in a deep rag he's or a net so I just kept moving. Sadly to say I gave up and figured the noise wouldn't quit so I did. Does this happen during warm,humid,summer nights or was this a rare occurrence?

Is that pre-amp on the HF antenna? Is it grounded? Weather throws out a lot of interference on the low bands. It doesn't even have to be close.
I used to use a Hustler 5BTV when I first got on HF 30 years ago. When on 80m CW, I could hear static crashes from over hundreds of miles away. Other atmospheric conditions cause all kinds of background noise, along with power line noise.
Larry

 

[N8IAA]

Whats your HF antenna's Michael?
Ernie / W4HLN

He has a Comet 250B HF/6m antenna.
Larry

 

[n2pqq]

Purchase a good loop antenna

 

[AC9KH]

Does this happen during warm,humid,summer nights or was this a rare occurrence?

HF can be quite noisy in the summer on 75/80 and 160 meters, even from storms 100's of miles away. On the 75m nets at night, when I'm running the net, I listen on my 6m quad loop at 83 feet and transmit on either my 160m dipole (short range out to 500 miles or so) or my tower loaded up as a vertical mast radiator (when the bands are long) using the amplifier so others can hear me when there's lots of static crashes. The loop is a lot quieter for listening and I get the same signal strength on receive on the 6m loop as I get on the big dipole or vertical without the corona discharge off open-ended antenna elements. There is no single antenna that does everything equally well. So having different types of antennas to fit the conditions is handy.

Old trick for listening with lots of static is to notch SSB at 2400-2500 Hz, turn the AF gain wide open, use the RF gain to control volume, and put your AGC on fast so it recovers quicker after a big static crash. It provides a slight improvement in signal/noise ratio and works about as well as all the fancy filters in the modern rigs. There is no radio I know of where you can push some button and set back with an armchair copy when the bands are noisy.

 

[K5MPH]

First of all when you have that high of noise turn that pre-amp off all you doing is ampfying the noise it self then try to notch the rest of the noise maybe that will help welcome to the world of HF good luck .............

 

[AC2OY]

Thanks guys sorry I have a TS-2000 with a comet 250-B. Please allow me to share some pictures of the setup

 

[AC2OY]

Oops I can't seem to upload pictures from my phone, when I get home I'll post pictures of the antenna grounding.

 

[cmdrwill]

I get out the Gap Hear it speaker. Then go get something to drink...

 

[AC2OY]

Let me try again with pictures

 

[AC2OY]

Another

 

[N0IU]

Thanks guys sorry I have a TS-2000 with a comet 250-B. Please allow me to share some pictures of the setup

That's the problem... your shack is upside down!

But seriously...

Before you spend any money, see if the issues clear up once the weather passes.

 

[AC2OY]

HF can be quite noisy in the summer on 75/80 and 160 meters, even from storms 100's of miles away. On the 75m nets at night, when I'm running the net, I listen on my 6m quad loop at 83 feet and transmit on either my 160m dipole (short range out to 500 miles or so) or my tower loaded up as a vertical mast radiator (when the bands are long) using the amplifier so others can hear me when there's lots of static crashes. The loop is a lot quieter for listening and I get the same signal strength on receive on the 6m loop as I get on the big dipole or vertical without the corona discharge off open-ended antenna elements. There is no single antenna that does everything equally well. So having different types of antennas to fit the conditions is handy.

Old trick for listening with lots of static is to notch SSB at 2400-2500 Hz, turn the AF gain wide open, use the RF gain to control volume, and put your AGC on fast so it recovers quicker after a big static crash. It provides a slight improvement in signal/noise ratio and works about as well as all the fancy filters in the modern rigs. There is no radio I know of where you can push some button and set back with an armchair copy when the bands are noisy.

Chris if I understand you correctly set the AGC on a faster rate? I will try that and riding the RF gain as well thank you! Worked Poland,Italy,and Spain again other night pumping out 80 watts so the antenna is working.

 

[AC9KH]

Chris if I understand you correctly set the AGC on a faster rate? I will try that and riding the RF gain as well thank you! Worked Poland,Italy,and Spain again other night pumping out 80 watts so the antenna is working.

Yes, if there is thunderstorms the static crashes, even from hundreds of miles away, cause what amounts to a temporary overload of the receiver's front end. So the AGC reacts to reduce the sensitivity and subsequently takes a bit to recover with it set to normal speed so you can copy again. It's still not exactly pleasant working 75/80 or 160 (or even 60 or 40 meters) when it's that noisy. And in those conditions on a HFnet that runs every night, we're also not afraid to put the cobs to the amplifiers and run 'em flat out.

 

[WA0CBW]

Here are a couple of suggestions to improve your ground system. Ground rods should be no closer than twice their length. Putting them closer does not increase your ground. It looks like your master ground rod is where your surge arrestor is located. Your electrical ground should also connect to the same point along with your equipment grounds (is that the ground wire going into the house). The National Electrical Code requires that ALL ground rods be connected together to the same point including the electrical ground. It looks like the surge arrestor could use some more weather proofing. What you have is pretty good and probably better than most ground systems
BB

 

[AC9KH]

Here are a couple of suggestions to improve your ground system.

The thing is, though, grounding is not going to help with static in the summer months that is caused by storms from hundreds or even thousands of miles away. It won't even help with corona discharge when local conditions are bad. The RF ground for the antenna and the grounding for the station are two different things too.

I have my tower loaded up as a vertical mast radiator and use it for long distance on 75/80 and 160 meters. And I use the 160 dipole for NVIS out to 500 miles or so. Neither one is any good for listening in the summer when there's static. Most of the local noise is vertically polarized, so the vertical as a listening antenna is horrible. Most everybody I know that uses verticals on HF, myself included, use them only for transmitting and switch to a DC grounded antenna like a loop for listening.

I had a vertical plane 80m delta loop for awhile with the top at 88 feet, vertically polarized. It was no better than the tower for listening, and didn't have near the gain or low radiation takeoff of the tower for transmitting. I switched it to horizontal polarization for listening and it was noisier than my little 6m quad loop for Rx on HF and didn't provide any better signal/noise ratio. So I finally took it down and put the 160 dipole back up, since it is a lot more useful antenna.

The message is that a fairly small loop antenna makes a pretty good Rx antenna for HF if you can get it high enough. My 6m loop is at 97 feet and it remains the best HF Rx antenna I have tried to-date. It can easily pick up all the (remaining) clear channel AM radio stations in the US during the day**.

Edit:
** I should have said "most" and not "all". There's some like WOAI in Texas and KBBI in Homer, AK that don't come in until night time. But WA0RCR in Missouri with the Gateway 160 broadcast on weekends is a good test for an HF listening antenna since I think Vern transmits at around 300-400 watts on a Rohn 25G loaded up as a vertical. My 160 dipole can pick up Vern's broadcast at night, but it is very rough copy except in the winter time. Using the tower for listening to WA0RCR, I get a better signal but more noise, so the copy is no better. Using that little 6m quad loop, WA0RCR is armchair copy and I can sometimes even pick him up on the loop in early afternoon on Saturday before the propagation gets better at night.

Just wanted to provide that little comparison to illustrate what a loop can do as a listening antenna. I'm not totally "sold" on loops for transmitting. But they sure work nice on Rx for SWL. And in my experience, the higher you can get it, the better it works as a receiving antenna.