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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2017, 4:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwt873 View Post
I second this.. Cheapie Chinese radios aren't type accepted for MURS, GMRS/FRS and can't legally be used there. But, it's less serious using them on frequencies set aside for use by the general public rather than talking on unauthorized frequencies reserved for other services.
Thanks for expanding on my point. While still technically improper (I can't honestly say illegal since it is not a criminal offense), it at least shifts the problem onto frequencies that at the very least will cause less harm.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2017, 4:44 PM
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Everyone seems to be trying to justify doing the wrong thing. It may not be illegal but they can still hit you hard in the pocketbook. If it's wrong, it's wrong. Don't keep trying to find the "least wrong" way.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2017, 5:34 PM
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Originally Posted by KK4JUG View Post
Everyone seems to be trying to justify doing the wrong thing. It may not be illegal but they can still hit you hard in the pocketbook. If it's wrong, it's wrong. Don't keep trying to find the "least wrong" way.
My reply has nothing at all to do with the original question, but rather was simply amplifying on my suggestion that his buddies shift their usage to MURS.

Personally I have never knowingly communicated with any unlicensed operator on any amateur or GMRS frequency. For that matter, I won't even talk with licensed operators who are classical "Lids" either. I simply won't encourage bad behavior by giving them a platform.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2017, 11:46 PM
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Which may be the millennial factor so prevalent today. Only put as much effort into it to pass an easy exam. As was pointed out, this should be a learning experience. Learning to use the allowed frequencies legally. Don't complicate matters by saying that "one must talk to licensed operators" but not including "not talk to unlicensed operators" could mean you could. NOT.


Banned for encouraging legal and proper use of the crappy band.
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Old 02-12-2017, 10:28 AM
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Kind of like - O, You mean I shouldn't let someone drive my car, because they are:
a. Unlicensed ?
b. Suspended ?
c. Revoked ?
d. Not here Legally ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by robertmac View Post
Which may be the millennial factor so prevalent today. Only put as much effort into it to pass an easy exam. As was pointed out, this should be a learning experience. Learning to use the allowed frequencies legally. Don't complicate matters by saying that "one must talk to licensed operators" but not including "not talk to unlicensed operators" could mean you could. NOT.


Banned for encouraging legal and proper use of the crappy band.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2017, 2:45 PM
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If I don't hear a call sign that sounds legit, then I don't answer or communicate with that operator.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2017, 3:18 PM
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Originally Posted by KC4RAF View Post
If I don't hear a call sign that sounds legit, then I don't answer or communicate with that operator.
....and a lot of guys will respond without a call sign to someone who "checks in" when they get in their car, for instance. They may know each others' voices but not everyone else does. Eventually, they give their call sign, usually when the automatic call sign is broadcast by the repeater.

We may be lucky in my neck of the woods. I don't ever recall any real abuse or interference or even hearing of any.
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Old 02-12-2017, 5:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KK4JUG View Post
....and a lot of guys will respond without a call sign to someone who "checks in" when they get in their car, for instance. They may know each others' voices but not everyone else does. Eventually, they give their call sign, usually when the automatic call sign is broadcast by the repeater.

We may be lucky in my neck of the woods. I don't ever recall any real abuse or interference or even hearing of any.
They are still legal. There is no requirement to ID before you start talking. So, you can key the radio, talk to your buddy for up and to the ten minute mark before you have to ID.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2017, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by rescue161 View Post
They are still legal. There is no requirement to ID before you start talking. So, you can key the radio, talk to your buddy for up and to the ten minute mark before you have to ID.
For those Amateurs operating in Canada, this is a copy of the official regulations for identifying:

9.3 The operator of any amateur station shall transmit the applicable identification referred to in Section*9.1 or 9.2 as appropriate, in English or in French, at the beginning and at the end of each period of exchange of communication or test transmission, and at intervals of not more than 30*minutes throughout the period of exchange of communication

I can't speak for the US rules, but I will not go back to a call in Canada unless I here the call sign first.

Banned for encouraging legal and proper use of the crappy band.
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Old 02-13-2017, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rescue161 View Post
They are still legal. There is no requirement to ID before you start talking. So, you can key the radio, talk to your buddy for up and to the ten minute mark before you have to ID.
I believe rescue161 is implying that is the US you can start talking and without unkeying, talk for ten minutes before identifying - which is technically correct.

(a) Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every 10 minutes during a communication, for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions. No station may transmit unidentified communications or signals, or transmit as the station call sign, any call sign not authorized to the station.

As a bit of an aside, what always ticks me off a bit is hearing hams on simplex talking and cussing and not identifying as though the requirement is non-existent when not using a repeater. Not sure if this is attributed to laziness or apathy (or both).
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2017, 10:04 AM
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I live in EBE and there aren't a smorgasbord of machines so we all know each other by voice and sometimes even by signal ,doesn't mean we can forget protocol or etiquette ,and ultimately they are in violation and since you are licensed they will come down on you harder for taking part in any illegal activity.
Although you can find many groups of Off roaders who memorize just to pass ,not because they enjoy radio or want to take part but rather a means to make off roading easier,funner or safer .

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2017, 11:53 AM
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FWIW - There is no such thing as an "unlicensed ham" (as in the Subject line of this thread).
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2017, 8:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwt873 View Post
Plus, on the 2 meter band, it's possible that ham(s) might hear them and start tracking them down. We had some guys on a local construction site using 2 meter frequencies. (On one of the satellite uplink frequencies no less). We found them through triangulation and notified the local radio authority. They were shut down.
THIS! Gentle Readers, the solution to unlicensed operations is not to talk to them but to get good at direction finding, documenting and locating the offenders, and reporting them.

By the way, this is no different for any licensed service. In fact, ham radio clubs could be of use to many services by being able to document and track rogue signal sources. We should not be enforcers, but we can provide technical assistance in line with 47CFR97.1 (a) and (c).

This could open many doors for access to prime antenna real estate by also providing a useful service.
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Old 02-14-2017, 8:59 AM
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If you read the FCC Amateur violations, most are for failure to identify. Most occur on the 14.313 circus frequency and include substantial NAL's.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2017, 9:49 AM
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MANY hams and otherwise use radios not allowed on FRS, MURs, and GMRS

Sadly although this is a FCC violation, its virtually impossible to enforce

FRS is 1/2 watt Max, 2.5khz, and permantly FIXED antenna only

MURs is 2 watt max, and narrow only on 151 MHz channels, must be MURs certified

GMRS requires a license

Ham Radio requires a license

no conventional ham or commercial radio is legal for FRS use

and no radio whether commercial or ham if it can be made to transmit over 2 watts or programmed to other frequencvies is legal for MURs use

I know of MANY two way radio companies, businesses, and hams that
use illegal radios on these frequencies on a routine basis

and actually think what they are doing is perfectly legal
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2017, 5:20 PM
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First off- a disclaimer to what I am about to write…..
.
*** I do not condone it! Do not say that Coyote advocates it! This is for educational and illustrative purposes Only!
.
(Geeeez, I hate to do that, but there are some donkeys out there that take everything seriously )
.
Okay….
.
Unlicensed ham operation is as old as the first radio amateur. The term was- is- “Boot Legging” - and unless you are a real novice to the hobby, I’m sure the term is familiar. Not familiar with it?…well then- Bootlegging is borrowing someone’ call, or inventing your own- it was not uncommon in ham radio’s past… I don’t know where the art is today. I imagine with the instantly accessible data banks it would be more awkward than in the 30’s and 40’s- but radio enthusiasts are clever little buggers, so I can’t say. I will hazard a guess, however, that the first licensed ham talked to unlicensed ones for a long time before things settled down.
.
Personally I have know quite a few, today very proper and law abiding hams that started out as Boot Legers. Did I talk to them on the air ?? I take the 5th.
.
I have operated ham stations all over the world- A few were from locations that I was given a tacit nod of approval by someone in questionable authority to use such a radio. I would select my own callsign, and go on the air- all the while thinking (knowing) it probably was not up-and-up legitimate. … borderline bootlegging.
.
Like a story?-- This one is from my grandfather. He was B24 bombardier, 8th Air Force in WW2 -stationed in England.. He was not an AF radio operator, but he was a ham. He told me some evenings he’d spend in the radio shack on his base, listening to what swirled thru the ether in war torn Europe…. the radio operators in that station, also hams, giving him free access to the equipment.
One evening he was listening on a guarded command frequency (guarded in that it was listened to by everyone, but only certain traffic ventured on it.)
.
Background: This was in CW days so everything was code…. Everything Ham was forbidden… Hams all over the world were off the air. Only military traffic was heard.
.
Back to the story--- my grandfather called over the radio operator in the hut to ask him what he made out of the signal he was hearing. It was distinctive “CQ.” The sending station sign’d with a couple letters, initals? they thought………………. and
.
Someone broke silence and answer’d. A ham QSO was taking place.. Mind you, with bookleg’d/invented callsigns. Within minutes, other stations joined in. My grandfather and the other radio op looked at each other-- and they join’d as well. All strictly forbidden.
.
He said that for the next couple of hours all of Europe came alive, as hams from both sides of the war became hams again-
for a brief moment, the war stood still.
Of course no one used their real calls; they had to QSY all over to talk- the QRM was just like they’d known in the Good Old Days.
.
Eventually some super power’d command stations came on frequency and stopped all the fun- but I am sure there were hams that remember’d that night all their lives.
.
…………..Hee hee….. I have a bit of that pirate blood in me……..
.
.
………………..CF
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Old 02-14-2017, 6:18 PM
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You can't even transmit "blind", for instance to someone with a "receive only" scanner as this would be interpreted as "broadcasting" - another no-no.

Quote:
Study Material ? you mean Memorization Material
Absolutely - you are taught how to pass the exam - you don't have to understand anything about radio.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 02-15-2017, 5:09 PM
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Originally Posted by godofbiscuits View Post
I have gotten my ham license recently, KM6GCQ here hello everyone!, and I joined an off road group where some of the members use ham handsets and don't have licenses.

I do my due diligence and tell them they need to have it, telling them how simple and cheap it is, but I am wondering some things.

1. Can I get fined for talking to them? I have been on one trip with them and they only use it to tell when vehicles are stopped, they don't chat on them.

2. Do people here refuse to talk to people who don't have licenses?
This was covered in the license exam. I suggest you look over the question pools, followed by looking up anything that's not clear.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 02-15-2017, 5:35 PM
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You can't even transmit "blind"....
So, when you get into your car, turn on your ham radio, give your call sign and say "monitoring" or "mobile" or something that indicates you're on the air and willing to talk, is that transmitting "blind?"
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Old 02-15-2017, 5:58 PM
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Originally Posted by KK4JUG View Post
So, when you get into your car, turn on your ham radio, give your call sign and say "monitoring" or "mobile" or something that indicates you're on the air and willing to talk, is that transmitting "blind?"
I avoid that potential issue by calling for a friend who's still licensed but hasn't been active for several years:

"KB9PXU KB9PXU N4GIX calling on 91" (or whatever freq/mode)
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