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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2017, 1:49 AM
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Being mobile, I used to drive mostly Central Time Zone, with an occasional trip to the office in Vegas. Long QSO's on 52 didn't bother me as if I need road directions, somebody was there. It as hard to keep up with all the repeaters down the highway. When I flew, I could get a real pile up on 52 calling my callsign, Air Mobile. At 30,000 feet, 5 watts goes pretty far. Pilots who were hams, we moved to 146.55 or .58 or 147.47 sometimes after initial contact. Several have commented that repeaters can be "snobbish". Going mobile, I could make more contacts on 52 then if I located s pop;ular repeater. A stranger comes on air, seems no one wants to talkj. My radio club has 3 repeaters. With my scanner, I record the repeaters day and night. Some days no one gets on the air. Sometimes its a week or more for uhf activity, Makes me wonder why we spend the money . I have said several times, the club could buy cell phones for everyone and have more money in the bank then spending on repeaters that don'tr get used. Every year $2500 to $3000. Anyway, continual "noise " on 52 is not a big deal. As a mobile, its nice that there is "noise" at all.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2017, 9:45 AM
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This morning I revisited this thread and, this being a quiet Thursday (no one making demands on me at this moment) I began musing on this topic.

.
I think getting a consensus on the use of ham ‘calling frequencies” is about as easy as herding cats- in this case hams. Its just a given- it won’t happen. That’s why my two favorite knobs on my radios are the Volume Control and the On-Off Switch. After using them my default mode goes into Take the Dogs For a Walk. After all, ham radio is my hobby- no body is paying me for it.
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That being said, Coyote's " Modest Proposal--**"

.
I recall that where I live there used (still?) to be something called the Long Term Zero -LiTZ, aka- the “Wilderness Protocol.” I wonder- who does it? Is it viable? For those curmudgeons that like to only ‘monitor the frequency’ their using this would pretty much assures them that they won’t be bother’d by a lot of idle chat, The rest of the world can talk away. Since it may not be in current use, LiTZ may turn out even better- those humourless monitors will never hear anything, thus not complaining- they will eventually loose interest, wither and start collecting stamps instead.
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Seriously, I am interested to know if LiTZ is in use anywhere. Here in the Rockies I listen on “52” without any filters- I don’t need them- in fact- I want to hear what little is out there.
.
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………………………..CF
.
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** with apologies.. “A modest proposal” by Jonathan Swift
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2017, 10:23 AM
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Long Tone Zero and Wilderness Protocol are two different things.

As far as I know Wilderness Protocol only involves making calls or listening for calls on certain frequencies at certain times each hour. I don't recall ever reading about DTMF use.

I have only heard of LiTZ being used twice. I don't think it was implemented in very many places due to requiring external decoders.

Once was the 146.85 repeater in St. Joseph, MO back in the 80s. At that time several hams and the state highway patrol troop HQ had DTMF decoders configured for LiTZ.

The other was some repeater with a closed private autopatch that was set so a LiTZ press would bring up the autopatch and dial 911. I don't remember if that was in the Kansas City area or Dallas/Fort Worth area.
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Old 02-23-2017, 10:48 AM
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What is the calling frequency on 80 meters SSB??
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Old 02-23-2017, 10:58 AM
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Ahhh!, thanks ND5Y.... I did get that mix'd up. I do listen on 52 (No tones) for that particular reason; we have quite a few big places where the 'cels don't reach, and hams carry handhelds "just in case"-- plus Summits on the Air is a big thing here in the summer..52 gets popular then.

.

.
.......................................CF

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Old 02-23-2017, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by TheSpaceMann View Post
What is the calling frequency on 80 meters SSB??
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Ham Radio DXpedition, Calling & Simplex Frequencies
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2017, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyote-Frostbyte View Post
This morning I revisited this thread and, this being a quiet Thursday (no one making demands on me at this moment) I began musing on this topic.

.
I think getting a consensus on the use of ham ‘calling frequencies” is about as easy as herding cats- in this case hams. Its just a given- it won’t happen. That’s why my two favorite knobs on my radios are the Volume Control and the On-Off Switch. After using them my default mode goes into Take the Dogs For a Walk. After all, ham radio is my hobby- no body is paying me for it.
.
That being said, Coyote's " Modest Proposal--**"

.
I recall that where I live there used (still?) to be something called the Long Term Zero -LiTZ, aka- the “Wilderness Protocol.” I wonder- who does it? Is it viable? For those curmudgeons that like to only ‘monitor the frequency’ their using this would pretty much assures them that they won’t be bother’d by a lot of idle chat, The rest of the world can talk away. Since it may not be in current use, LiTZ may turn out even better- those humourless monitors will never hear anything, thus not complaining- they will eventually loose interest, wither and start collecting stamps instead.
.
Seriously, I am interested to know if LiTZ is in use anywhere. Here in the Rockies I listen on “52” without any filters- I don’t need them- in fact- I want to hear what little is out there.
.
.
………………………..CF
.
.
** with apologies.. “A modest proposal” by Jonathan Swift

Whew! When you mentioned "A Modest Proposal" I thought this was going to get weird and go downhill really fast. - Maybe the HAM radio police on steroids! Perhaps I was just feeling guilty for my long QSOs on 2M call.
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Old 02-23-2017, 4:49 PM
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When myself and some of the local guys break from the repeaters we use the other simplex frequencies and respect the band plan agreement. We like our licence privileges and want to keep them.
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Old 02-23-2017, 5:47 PM
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I concur, AC2OY-- if a group of friends wants to converse off a repeater, they should agree to meet on a lesser channel than the national calling frequencies. I think, however, like any social animal, hams like to herd together with other amateurs.
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I give this as an example: How many of you out there operate Six Metre’s? Where on the band do you park yourselves?.. My guess is its somewhere between 50.125 and…. 50.125. and Why?
.
Coyote’s analogy-- A woman thinks she has lost her keys, somewhere near her car, in a dark parking lot. She, however, busily search for them beneath a nearby street light. When asked by her friend why she is looking there- the reply:
.
“Because the light is better over here”

.
Okay, sorry about that poor analogy (that wasn’t me, BTW, loosing her keys )
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My point is, you hang out where other do, and you will likely converse where they are too. Others will hear you and may join in. Activity is a magnet, and no ham should disparage any activity, especially in something like my 6M example. For goodness sake, there is 3900 Khz for other ‘phone beside 50.125 - just QSY.
.

I think, on this topic, we are all on the same page- at least among those that have responded here. Courtesy in the use of what is a free range, wild west of open frequencies- is what matters.
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Time for me to step down from my soapbox…. ( laffing ) ?….. Naw…….too interesting, No?
.
………………..CF

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Old 02-23-2017, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by KR7CQ View Post
God forbid someone actually talk for more than ten seconds on the sacred calling frequency. Heck, if people actually used the frequency, then there might be someone around to hear someone call huh? How long will most monitor a frequency that is dead or nearly dead every day? If someone wants to talk while others are, we have a system for this. Wait for a pause and throw your call out. Or if you just can't stand to wait, break. How is it that people talking stop others from using the frequency?

Around here there is a ".52 group" that rag chews, and a lot of new hams have found this group and gotten into the hobby because of it, after being turned off by the snobbery on local repeaters. But of course the hams who just can't stand to hear people rag chew on 52 employ tactics to make the people using it miserable. Tactic one is coming on and lecturing, and when that fails tactic two is to interfere with / jam the rag chewers....to teach them a lesson you know...

In my neck of the woods the repeaters are mostly dead silent, but are otherwise stiff, dry and snobby. There are the regulars in the clique, and the baofeng guys who get a radio, get excited, and then get on to find that most people have no interest in talking to them or getting to know them.

HF gets old for a lot of younger people who try it, since there are only so many times you can tell someone you are hearing them well, and they you...only so many times you can tell people what gear and antenna you are running.

Simplex calling frequencies are the one place you can have a real-life light hearted conversation with / meet a wide variety of people, including those who are not "typical" ham radio guys. But over time enough complainers lecturing people about not using these frequencies have pretty much driven people from them as well. Now repeaters and simplex are both mostly dead. Brilliant!!
So they are no longer calling frequencies? Then let's do away with that terminology. Call them hang out frequencies. This is the way CB went to pot years ago when we had designated monitoring frequencies and talking frequencies. Then people started to do what ever they wanted. It drove away those wanting to monitor for calls when people started to use monitoring frequencies for talking. One would think with all the frequencies available, we could designate a calling frequency and all others as talking. Not sure what is so hard with that?

Encouraging proper use of two-way radio spectrum including CB.
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2017, 10:29 AM
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Default Use of ham radio calling frequencies

I have been a ham probably longer than the average person making comments on here. As long as I can remember, the SIMPLEX frequencies were always listed as just that. Now and again you will see specific frequencies having the "National Calling" listed with them.

But lets settle on one point, these frequencies are simplex and just that. In my travels around the country that I have made frequently, I have run across a few locations where the simplex frequencies had repeaters connected to them. So in these locations the repeater traffic would come out on the simplex frequencies. I don't agree with this type of use as it does make that frequency useless for those that are trying to talk portable to portable while driving. Sure they could go to another frequency, but they choose to pick the "National Calling" frequency in case they may need some help or directions.

Using the "National Calling" frequencies while traveling on has you possibly bother others for a very brief time. Generally it may only be a matter of maybe 5 minutes and your out of range of a fixed station. So how can you complain about the use of these frequencies for this application.

Now if your holding a round table with multiple people using these frequencies from a fixed location, then the training to allow a brief time between transmissions needs to be adhered to. This way if someone really needs to break in, there is a space of dead air for this to happen.

Let me give an example of the "National Calling" frequency police up in Alexandria, VA. back a few years ago. Myself at a fixed location and a friend were on the 50.110 MHz. frequency talking on SSB while he was mobile. This irate ham came on and told us we couldn't use the frequency as it was used fox DX communications. I politely asked him if the band was open and if he was hearing anything. He said no. So I politely told him to go back to his armchair and watch the TV some more.

Setting aside specific frequencies for a very restricted use is not what the FCC has in the rules and regulations for amateur radio use . Unless they have been changes very recently, we are free to use any frequency at any time as we see fit. Yes there are channels that are simplex and may be listed by some groups as a "National Calling" frequency, but that doesn't mean that is the only communications that can be used over them. If you don't like the way the FCC rules are wrote on these simplex channels, then petition the FCC to change the rules.

It sound like there are some that need to grow up and stop trying to be radio police on the ham bands.
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Old 02-26-2017, 10:57 AM
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Yesterday afternoon, while on my way home from the La Porte "Cabin Fever Hamfest" I had a nice QSO with another mobile on 146.52. We were able to sustain contact for about ten minutes, and both of us left several seconds of dead air in-between replies in case anyone else wished us the frequency.

As it happened though, no one else broke in or needed the frequency.
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Old 02-26-2017, 12:23 PM
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This is a bemusing topic, but entrancing none the less. Is it because we humans, though outwardly despising controversy, actually like a little of it in our sometimes colourless lives; Liking it so much that as radio hams we can get exercised over such topics as the use of a National Calling Frequency?
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The only legitimate regulation on these frequencies, as far as I am concern’d, would have to come from official regulating agencies ie: the FCC. The term Calling Frequency and use of “52”, etal. is purely a social agreement among polite society. Even if regulated, the authorities will always be vex’d by bumpkins- but overall, the system works out fine., and the regulators are not required. Just be polite, kind, of good cheer- and use that On-Off switch.
.
Coyote’s summation?
.
Will said it far better……


“………Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. “
.
.....................................Macbeth, Act 5, Scene 5
.

.
……………………CF
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2017, 12:47 PM
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It's interesting, but the only SSB "calling frequency" listed for 80 meters is one for QRP! They even have a regular one for AM, but not for SSB!!
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Old 02-28-2017, 5:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2OY View Post
When myself and some of the local guys break from the repeaters we use the other simplex frequencies and respect the band plan agreement. We like our licence privileges and want to keep them.
You're not going to lose you privileges or your license if you don't honor the "band plan." However, you might piss off the self-appointed "band police."

There is no force of law behind the various band plans. All they are is "gentleman's agreements" about how the band should be utilized. The FCC places no restrictions on the 2 meter band other than to say what classes of license holders may use it (Extra, General, Advanced, or Technician.)
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Old 02-28-2017, 6:44 PM
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The FCC places no restrictions on the 2 meter band other than to say what classes of license holders may use it (Extra, General, Advanced, or Technician.)
144.0 to 144.1 MHz is restricted to CW per 97.305.
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Old 02-28-2017, 6:50 PM
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The FCC places no restrictions on the 2 meter band other than to say what classes of license holders may use it (Extra, General, Advanced, or Technician.)
In addition to the CW only portion there are other portions where repeater and auxiliary stations are not allowed. See 97.201 and 97.205.
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Old 02-28-2017, 7:03 PM
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Maybe this strays off topic, but the big "Regulator" also limits the power and emissions on this, the two metre band- as it does all the others.
.
I bring this up to add a historical perspective. In the days before FM, there was little use of the top half of 2 metre's..--this, in the days before the proliferation of repeaters, digital, simplex etc. There was a movement that almost succed'd in getting the top of 2 metre's allocated to Television. Imagine then, if you will, what the complexion of 2 metre's would be like today.
.
.....................CF

Last edited by Coyote-Frostbyte; 02-28-2017 at 7:51 PM..
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Old 02-28-2017, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by N4GIX View Post
Yesterday afternoon, while on my way home from the La Porte "Cabin Fever Hamfest" I had a nice QSO with another mobile on 146.52. We were able to sustain contact for about ten minutes, and both of us left several seconds of dead air in-between replies in case anyone else wished us the frequency.

As it happened though, no one else broke in or needed the frequency.
And that is problem with talking on a calling frequency. Some get so tired of the chatter they just turn the dial and then don't come back. And why as to join in if one has nothing to input. OR why should one have to break in on a calling frequency. Decent thing would be to move to one of the many talking frequencies. But humans agree to disagree. And this is so prevalent on many bands these days.

Last edited by robertmac; 02-28-2017 at 10:13 PM..
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Old 03-01-2017, 10:57 AM
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It seems there is quite a divide about the use of the calling frequencies- especially “52.” Feelings run the spectrum; from those that see it as a common channel to meet and chat- to the rigid adherents of a ‘calling/emergency’ frequency only, -similar to marine channel 16, or aircraft 121.5. At least that is the way I see this- personally just about every frequency, ham/non ham, official or otherwise to me is the former- I just use common sense.
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My favorite common sense example is carrying my little Icom Airband transceiver when ever I am away from ’civilization.’ I use it to talk to aircraft all the time- mostly for business- but also to idle away some slack moments (and we have plenty of those when in the field.) 123.45Mhz is my favorite idle-time frequency, and chatting with pilots in the middle of the Pacific as “Coyote UniComm” entertains everyone- and harms none. Certainly we’d never think to do this on 121.5- a really, truly serious calling/emergency frequency. I regard ’123’ as I would ’52.’

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But maybe this should elicit another of my “Modest Proposals.”
.
For those that really want an emergency/calling only frequency- a “121.5”- then start your movement. Get the unofficial agencies, like the ARRL, to endorse and champion such a channel. I suggest 147.48Mhz; for its far off the beaten tracks; those that want to only monitor for calls and emergencies won’t be bother’d by a lot of idle chat, and the rest of the ham world can go about its business as a hobby.
.
Hey, I have heard weirder Ham things suggested ….
.
…………………..CF
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