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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2017, 11:27 PM
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I remember the uproar when the Red Cross came out with the requirement for background checks for volunteers....the ARES/RACES/ARRL went nuts. All the whining and crying.

If they want to play with the professionals then they should have to follow the same requirements that the professionals have to abide by.

Chris
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2017, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cengleman View Post
I remember the uproar when the Red Cross came out with the requirement for background checks for volunteers....the ARES/RACES/ARRL went nuts. All the whining and crying.



If they want to play with the professionals then they should have to follow the same requirements that the professionals have to abide by.



Chris


I agree with your thread. I agree with background checks. I work on both sides of the fence, ARES and Red Cross volunteer, and public safety professional. With the ARES I am a member of we perform background checks, and I recommend it.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2017, 12:07 AM
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Hopefully those background checks are being done by the actual agencies and not the ducks , I mean hams.. Dam spell check!!
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2017, 4:05 AM
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In my county, prospective RACES volunteers have a background check run on them by the sheriff's office. We have denied RACES credentials to a few individuals as a result of that background check.

I also know that the Red Cross and Salvation Army conducts background checks on volunteers who will be coming into contact with the public. However the current MOU between the ARRL and the Red Cross states:

Quote:
6. Mutual Support
a. Shared members: Each organization will welcome interested volunteers to become members and participate in the activities of the other organization. Such volunteers shall meet the standards, have the responsibilities and be entitled to the privileges of each organization. ARRL volunteers interested in becoming Red Cross volunteers should understand that a background check is a requirement to be a volunteer.
b. ARRL volunteers supporting the Red Cross: ARRL may provide volunteers to assist the American Red Cross with communications in support of disaster relief activities as may be mutually agreed upon at the local and national levels. The ARRL does not require the completion of a criminal background check to participate in ARRL volunteer programs. However, radio amateurs acting as ARRL volunteers under the terms of this agreement shall not be requested or required to consent to nor undergo a background check in order to provide a communication function on behalf of the Red Cross.
In other words, if all you are doing as an ARES volunteer to the Red Cross is providing communications, the Red Cross does not require a background check. But, if you swing over to volunteering directly for the Red Cross, a background check is required.

Frankly, this one of my issues with ARES--the lack of a background check requirement. That said, if an ARES group volunteers to support another organization, then those ARES volunteers will probably have to adhere to that organization's rules.
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2017, 6:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ko6jw_2 View Post
As a long time ARES member, an EC, a VE and a repeater trustee I find that emergency communications may motivate new hams, but they rarely are interested in joining an ARES group or ARRL or taking part in nets, drills and events. They are interested in emergency communications to keep in touch with family members or a church group, but not interested in public service.

I frequently hear, " I don't want to join ARES, but if something happens I'm available." That's not the way it works. They will not be trained, will not have disaster service certification and mostly don't know how to use their radios.

The number of ham radio licenses is supposed to reach 750,000 in 2017 (source ARRL). About 160,000 are members of ARRL. That means that only about 21% of hams are members and that is the pool of operators who may join ARES groups.

I had a friend who got very excited about ham radio when his house nearly burned down in a brush fire. His enthusiasm lasted about two days. So, yes, there is an uptick after a major disaster, but it usually doesn't stick.
There's a fair chance that a lot more amateurs would join ARES if it was not required that they give up their right to keep and bear arms while engaged in EMCOMM service. I recommend people skip ARES and RACES and the rest and check out AMRRON.
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Old 04-29-2017, 6:11 PM
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Originally Posted by W9BU View Post
Frankly, this one of my issues with ARES--the lack of a background check requirement. That said, if an ARES group volunteers to support another organization, then those ARES volunteers will probably have to adhere to that organization's rules.
So in order to provide a community service, we are required to waive our right to be secure from search of our persons, houses, papers, and effects in the absence of probable cause of wrongdoing? Gosh, what a free (!) country!
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Old 04-29-2017, 6:37 PM
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Originally Posted by K7FFN View Post
So in order to provide a community service, we are required to waive our right to be secure from search of our persons, houses, papers, and effects in the absence of probable cause of wrongdoing? Gosh, what a free (!) country!
Nobody wants to search your private effects. However, public records are fair game. Criminal records are public. And nobody even needs your permission to do a search on you. (I've done searches on my neighbors. And found interesting stuff that I'm glad I know about.) So, no, you give up no rights at all when you sign up to join ARES or RACES or the Freemasons or whatever. They want to know about your criminal history, and they have every right to search the public records about you if you express an interest in joining their group. It makes good sense from a liability stand point. If you don't like it, you have other options, like starting your own group.

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Old 04-29-2017, 6:43 PM
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There's a fair chance that a lot more amateurs would join ARES if it was not required that they give up their right to keep and bear arms while engaged in EMCOMM service. I recommend people skip ARES and RACES and the rest and check out AMRRON.
There is nothing requiring someone to give up their rights. Not sure how you are reading that out of what has been said.

Background checks don't mean you have to give up rights.
Being an amateur engaged in the hobby doesn't mean you have to give up rights.

There may be some instances where firearms are not allowed to be carried in some locations. In that case, leave it secured in your car.

As for AmRRON, there's a difference between being a prepper and providing auxiliary communications for organizations. The two are not mutually exclusive, but the end goals are different. Not every amateur radio operator is interested in the prepper lifestyle.
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Old 04-29-2017, 6:48 PM
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Originally Posted by K7FFN View Post
So in order to provide a community service, we are required to waive our right to be secure from search of our persons, houses, papers, and effects in the absence of probable cause of wrongdoing? Gosh, what a free (!) country!
Wait, what?

No one is trying to take your stuff.
Certain organizations require background checks, and that is entirely reasonable. I don't want a pedophile volunteering at my sons school. A serial rapist should not be a volunteer at a women's crisis center.

Not all volunteer groups require back ground checks, but some do.

If you are concerned about this, then find a way to assist that doesn't get your feathers ruffled.


As for "probable cause of wrongdoing", I guess it all depends on your point of view. My wife and I have done foster care and we had to do some pretty deep background checks. That was something we agreed to when we decided to take on that task. It's not only a reasonable request, it was mandatory and not up for discussion.

Not all of us think the same way you do. That doesn't mean we're wrong or you are wrong. It just means were are different in how we chose to look at the world around us.
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2017, 7:23 PM
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I have no issue, in fact think back round check for criminal history should be done. My issue with the original back round thing was a credit check. Not sure why the Red Cross needed that. I've worked for 2 Sheriff's offices, and don't think there was ever a credit check. Criminal check? Oh yea, very detailed ones (mine was clean), you should see the things that big brother has on file in what's called a CCH!
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Old 04-29-2017, 9:17 PM
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Originally Posted by K7FFN View Post
There's a fair chance that a lot more amateurs would join ARES if it was not required that they give up their right to keep and bear arms while engaged in EMCOMM service.
I don't think the ARRL has a nationwide policy on ARES and firearms. However, your local ARES group may have such a policy if their served agencies demand it. Also, given that ARES volunteers are likely to be assigned to schools, hospitals, and various government buildings, many of which have blanket prohibitions on firearms, I'm not sure there's any way around this.
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2017, 9:46 PM
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Originally Posted by W9BU View Post

Frankly, this one of my issues with ARES--the lack of a background check requirement. That said, if an ARES group volunteers to support another organization, then those ARES volunteers will probably have to adhere to that organization's rules.
An issue of mine, too. Allowing unvetted individuals into an EMA office makes me shudder.
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Old 04-29-2017, 9:49 PM
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I can't imagine a properly run EMA office that would allow such a thing. Remember, there's often a significant difference between the ARRL nationwide ARES standards and local served agency standards. Local ARES groups need to understand that the served agency's rules take precedence.
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Old 04-30-2017, 1:45 PM
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Bashing amateur radio emcomm "whackers" is not on topic for this thread.
But the lids so love to bash so-called "whackers." Doing so gives the lids someone to look down on.
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Old 04-30-2017, 3:07 PM
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No, we love to bash whackers because often they are a safety hazard or are one step away from breaking the law.

Used to be one that would pass me on the way to work. Blacked out Crown Victoria with CB and scanner antennas all over it. He'd come flying up behind people in the fast lane. Watched him almost cause a few accidents.

Luckily he was caught.

Another one that would hang out at a local restaurant where he'd "do his reports". Problem was that one of the waitresses was the daughter of a police officer friend of mine. She recognized what was going on and he was busted. Found out he'd been pulling people over in the area.

Whackerism is a disease that must be eradicated.
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Old 05-06-2017, 6:14 PM
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I have no issue, in fact think back round check for criminal history should be done. My issue with the original back round thing was a credit check. Not sure why the Red Cross needed that. I've worked for 2 Sheriff's offices, and don't think there was ever a credit check. Criminal check? Oh yea, very detailed ones (mine was clean), you should see the things that big brother has on file in what's called a CCH!
As a dispatcher for 3 agencies, ALL of them required background checks w/credit history checks. The only thing they are looking for is if you have major debt issues which may put you in a position for manipulation to steal equipment or information and sell it for cash.

I have no problems with them running a credit check.... it is pretty much the same credit report that credit issuers pull when they approve credit.

Also... the reason ARC pushed for credit checks and background checks is that criminals descended on the Katrina operation and stole tons of equipment and donations. This was a fault of the ARC due to the fact that they grabbed anyone who wanted to go and sent them down to the coast with zero training and zero personal history with the Red Cross. They caught some...but not all.

Again....if you want to be treated as an equal and get access to areas that employees go, then you need to go through the same process they did. If you feel that is unfair then find another area to volunteer in.

Chris
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Old 06-17-2017, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ko6jw_2 View Post

The number of ham radio licenses is supposed to reach 750,000 in 2017 (source ARRL). About 160,000 are members of ARRL. That means that only about 21% of hams are members and that is the pool of operators who may join ARES groups.


Good thing there is more than ARES out there LOL



Back in NC I did my time in the local RACES group (the county wanted us organized as RACES and not ARES). Due to work, I have not looked into thing out here. If the stuff hit the fan, I'd be called into work anyway.
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ko6jw_2 View Post

The number of ham radio licenses is supposed to reach 750,000 in 2017 (source ARRL). About 160,000 are members of ARRL. That means that only about 21% of hams are members and that is the pool of operators who may join ARES groups.

ARRL membership is not required to join ARES.
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Old 06-20-2017, 1:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bill4long View Post
ARRL membership is not required to join ARES.
Yeah, I mentioned that back in post #12. Troubling that an ARES EC doesn't know the rules for volunteering for ARES.

And, I'm not real sure how someone "joins" ARES. ARES isn't a club.
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Old 06-20-2017, 7:58 PM
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Yeah, I mentioned that back in post #12. Troubling that an ARES EC doesn't know the rules for volunteering for ARES.

And, I'm not real sure how someone "joins" ARES. ARES isn't a club.
See here ARES

The Amateur Radio Emergency ServiceŽ (ARES) consists of licensed amateurs who have voluntarily registered their qualifications and equipment, with their local ARES leadership, for communications duty in the public service when disaster strikes.

Because ARES is an Amateur Radio program, only licensed radio amateurs are eligible for membership.

Apparently you don't "join", rather you "register." Although they do use the term "membership". So I guess what it boils down to is that you become a member of a registry of people willing to participate when they need you. They do have monthly meetings, at least all the ones I know of.

Dictionary.com say, definition #3, a club is "3. A group of people organized for a common purpose, especially a group that meets regularly:"

So I suppose it is safe to consider them a club of sorts. I'm not sure what the difference would be.

Last edited by bill4long; 06-20-2017 at 8:06 PM..
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